Why Your Home May Be Affecting Your Health More Than You Realize | Sarah Walker

Arthur (0:00): Hello, welcome everybody to another episode of Arthur's Roundtable. Super happy to have Sarah Walker with us today, which is a little bit, it's family office, family office adjacent subject matter, but really a niche business that I think you're going to find interesting as I did in learning a little bit more about it. So, Sarah, thank you for doing this today and please start at the beginning and tell us how this all came about.

Sarah Walker (0:24): Thank you for having me, Arthur. I'm excited to share how we support family offices. Like you said, it is very unique. We are an interior design and wellness advisory, and really the only one in the world right now that is combining interior design with wellness. And the reason that that started was a large part because of my upbringing and kind of early adult years.

Sarah Walker (0:47): So to start at the beginning, I was born and raised in Dubai. My father is an environmental biologist and worked for Sheikh Mohammed. And my mother is an art lover, an educator, and into holistic medicine. So I grew up seeing the world through those lenses. We got to travel extensively, visit royal palaces, go all through Europe, and then we would summer in in Utah, actually, near where you are.

Sarah Walker (1:14): And so it it was a really wonderful way to grow up and have an understanding about the reciprocal relationship that we have with the earth and, be really just aware of the physical and emotional impact that art and architecture have on who we are and and our brains and our bodies. And so, when I was 12, I came back to The United States and I met an interior designer, Fell in love with that. Knew that that's what I wanted to be when I grew up. And I went to an accredited design school and studied art and architecture, interior design, and really, you know, just absolutely loved it. Knew that that's what I wanted to do and that I would incorporate sustainability into everything that I did because of my upbringing.

Sarah Walker (1:59): But about halfway through my college years, I was in a severe car accident. So at 20, I'm dealing with chronic pain and chronic fatigue.

Unknown Speaker (2:10): Bummer.

Sarah Walker (2:10): And, yeah, I'm fully recovered Yeah. But it was a multiple two day, or sorry, two decade recovery journey for me to really figure out what needs to happen to feel really healthy and amazing again. And, as a result, I got to try a lot of different modalities and healing tech, all these these things that were kind of fringe. But because we were in California at the time, I had access to some really great doctors.

Arthur (2:38): I was on a sorry to interrupt, but I was on a a phone call with somebody from California who is a writer and we were talking about human design and we immediately profiled him and said, you're from California. You probably know about that woo woo stuff, right?

Unknown Speaker (2:55): Oh, 100%.

Arthur (2:56): Human design is we're a big fan, but you know, it's not everybody who gets exposed to all that. Right?

Sarah Walker (3:01): Right. Right. I mean, you think twenty years ago, was sitting in hyperbaric chambers, red light therapy, IVs, you know, things that are almost mainstream now, but were crazy insane back then. So long story short, it was that experience about realizing that at the peak of my life, my home and my home environment did not support my recovery and how I really needed to heal. And I I never wanted another family to experience that, something that worked with me.

Sarah Walker (3:35): And so I built my whole business around the premise that a home should support recovery, whether it's burnout, jet lag, a health crisis, any of those things, as well as focus and the human connection and entertaining and rest. And so really, that's a unique lens.

Arthur (3:54): It it really is. Wow. You were you able to were you in a position at the time where you saw opportunity to improve your environment for your recovery to do something about it and learn by things? Yeah.

Sarah Walker (4:10): Absolutely. Like, what I realized is that, you know, the things that at 20 years old, I took for granted, like a set of stairs or getting in and out of the bathtub easily, things that usually we attribute to aging in place. Right? And so really the premise of being able to live in place where your home supports you and a multigenerational family at any phase of life is a paradigm shift that really happened. And I I was able to implement those things into my home and and do a little bit of trial and error as a result of my own health journey.

Sarah Walker (4:44): But it has helped me see around corners for families all over the world.

Arthur (4:49): Yeah. It's super interesting. You know, it's one thing when you walk into someone's home who has either they have done it or help had somebody help them do it, create an environment that speaks something that says something. It's unmistakable when you walk into someone's home and see that they've spent a lot of time, not just hanging art from the wall, which can be really evocative and fulfilling, but, you know, just the flow of a home. Right?

Sarah Walker (5:23): Yeah. Absolutely. Because there's there's multiple facets even to that. There's how intuitive is it for me, to move from one room to the next? Am I bumping into furniture?

Sarah Walker (5:35): Am I having to take a long way, when I just really want to go get my coffee in the morning or, get my medicine out of the fridge? And then there's also the circulatory paths that the staff need and their storage needs that have to be taken into account. And where do we put the private chef? Is there a second kitchen? And how does that impact entertaining?

Sarah Walker (5:57): So there's this domino effect to how we live that we often underestimate how impactful that is to our mental load, our physical well-being, just how exhausting our home can possibly be. And I think a lot of us accept that as, oh, well, the builder and architect and designer I hired were really great. They said this was the way to do it or the only way to do it. And so I'm gonna settle for this. And I I never want a client that I work with to feel like they're settling that because this is the status quo.

Sarah Walker (6:29): There's so many wonderful options that we can do using science based interior design to actually elevate their quality of life and incorporate longevity and well-being.

Arthur (6:39): It's a very pedestrian example, but when you're in your home and you're doing things repetitively on a regular basis, day to day, you notice the inconveniences if they're there, right? And there's a lot more to it than that, but you don't want to be bothered with, you know, you take a couple of showers a day or at least one and you want the showerhead. I have a pet peeve about this. You you want it to be a nice experience since you're doing it so often. So why wouldn't you make it a nice experience?

Arthur (7:19): And it's really amazing to me how some people don't even think about that, but there's a lot more things, obviously, but my very pedestrian example.

Sarah Walker (7:29): It's it's so true. It's those everyday rituals that they can be mundane or they can be restorative. And it's a a real study that we do working with clients and their homes to say, we're both going to subtract the bad things like the toxins in your finishes and your furnishings and the pollutants in the water. And we're going to monitor your air quality. And we're going to make it easier for you to navigate your home regardless of, you know, if it's 20,000 square feet or, you know, bigger or smaller.

Sarah Walker (8:05): It doesn't matter. There's still an ease of navigation that should be there. And we're also gonna add in the good things that are beneficial, that are tied to well-being beyond amenities like the steam shower and the sauna, which I absolutely love and support. There's also things like biophilic design, which is adding in and incorporating nature into the home. And what that does is it's proven within three to five seconds of you walking into a room that incorporates those scientific principles of design that your heart rate and your cortisol drop.

Sarah Walker (8:39): So if you can imagine us coming in and actually creating a system for your home that is passive, you don't have to do anything except enjoy it, but you get all of these health and longevity benefits.

Arthur (8:52): So has the awareness, and I'm going to purposely be a little rough on the government, has the awareness that the FDA and all these government agencies and just go down the list really didn't have our back for fabrics on our couches, additives in our food, all that stuff that we become aware that they really don't have our back. Is that something that is easily, not easily, but are the tools there to assess whether this is problematic and you can fix it? Is this advanced to the point where you can basically build your house and your furniture and the environment so it's not toxic?

Sarah Walker (9:44): Short answer is it's still incredibly complex to do it. And the FDA, the government, the state are not interested in putting the infrastructure in compared to places like Europe and Canada, where there are dozens of certifications for products like cabinets and furnishings and upholstery that have to do with carp two or blue angel, which is monitoring what the toxins are that are going into your air. Are they keeping the room neutral? Are they taking pollutants and toxins out of the air? And so they have a whole system, and we source largely for that reason about 50% of our materials and furniture components from Europe because they have stricter regulations around what can be put safely into a home.

Sarah Walker (10:35): So very similar to what California is trying to do with their labels that say this might cause cancer. And people are so over it because everything, every product that they can get has that label. And so they just go, well, what else is there? You know?

Arthur (10:52): The label is there instead of solving the problem. Right?

Sarah Walker (10:56): Exactly. Exactly. We put a warning and say, you know, we're not taking liability if this gives you cancer. Whereas in Europe and very quite a few other places in the world, they are actively saying you are rewarded as a company if you actually help our people be healthier. As well as all the beautiful artistry and original designs that we have over in Europe is is obviously another key component.

Sarah Walker (11:20): But it is incredibly complex to source from American brands. And we have, of course, US based partners that we work with, but we do a lot of vetting. I go to the factories. I make sure that all of the components because it's not just the fabric. It's not just the wood.

Sarah Walker (11:37): It's the glue. It's the foam. It's all of the inside components that become problematic. One of the the brand partners that I absolutely love is called Ceridian, and it's an all natural mattress that integrates smart technology to alleviate pressure points as you sleep. And what that means is instead of you sleeping on a toxic foam mattress, you're sleeping on something that is neutral and restorative because it's all natural fibers.

Sarah Walker (12:05): And that has, you know, for the woo woo people out there, the energetic properties that are more healthy for your nervous system because your nervous system cares about things like that. And so there's really interesting companies that are doing great things in the space to move that needle so that we can live healthier. But it takes tremendous amount of research. And and that's why, you know, we are really selective about our brand partners because we care very deeply about what goes into our clients' homes.

Arthur (12:34): So it's still really hard. Right?

Sarah Walker (12:36): Very hard. Very hard. And that's why, we work with, you know, very high end brands because they're the ones that are doing that innovative research and they're doing the the scientific testing versus those that are wellness washing and they're just saying, oh, yeah, we use some organic components. So we're gonna say that this whole product is organic and nontoxic. And it's very con it's confusing to consumers.

Sarah Walker (13:02): They don't know what to do. And as a result, often they'll just say, well, there's the sticker. I guess, you know, what else am I supposed to do? And we wanna come in and change that narrative, support those brands that are actively trying to move the needle with the hope that it does cascade down and it becomes available to everybody because that should be the case.

Arthur (13:23): Yeah. I don't know anything about the science, but spandex probably is not good for you. And so everybody wears Lululemon and so forth, but for the most part, we're a 100% cotton on everything. We don't care what it looks like. Like we just don't care.

Arthur (13:38): And the, I wanted to ask you about, I've been a huge fan of Hastings. I don't have to comment on the record about how you feel about that, but are they still premium, like, worth exploring as a, as an option?

Sarah Walker (13:54): I think any brand similar to that, that is actively using natural components, they're actively testing, they're using the little components like we were talking about. It's not just the the bulk of the material. It's also the little pieces that go the connectors that can be dangerous and damaging. I know that they are a big player in this space, but the, you know, Ceridian that I mentioned is is similar in that they're really even pushing the envelope farther as far as using all natural components and EMF blockers. Just all the different anything that you can think of that is going to be more beneficial to a good night's sleep, including a doctor review after your first month.

Sarah Walker (14:40): I mean, what's not to love about that? But there's there's that competition, I think, is incredibly healthy in the marketplace for improving and raising the bar.

Arthur (14:51): Yeah. It's encouraging. What about the the, you know, even twenty years ago, twenty five years ago, the what would have been considered woo woo, the Feng Shui thing, is that still important?

Sarah Walker (15:06): I believe that it resonates a lot with our our clients kind of more in China and Japan. They're they are interested in that because of that energetic flow. How we've kind of relabeled that for The United States, North America, and Europe is more that intuitive flow. It's a very similar principle about if you can intuitively move through a space, so can the energy. Right?

Sarah Walker (15:33): So there's a lot that I like to do with just what can we do to reduce your mental load and the visual of the space. So that from a scientific side of feng shui, I like to think of neuroaesthetics, which is when you walk into the space, does it feel beautiful? Do you feel safe? And do you feel like you belong? And and that I think is ultimately a part of what feng shui is trying to get at as well is when you are in that space, does it feel balanced?

Sarah Walker (16:02): Are you using the design principles like symmetry and scale so that everything feels really great? Because in our homes, it's a really a missed opportunity to create a sanctuary and a wellness retreat. So many of my clients feel like they have to go to Bali to a wellness retreat in order to decompress. Right? This is this is a common thing in family offices and ultra high net worth.

Sarah Walker (16:28): Even my pro athletes, they feel like, my goodness, this is exhausting to live in this house. I just need to get away. And it's partly because our homes at this level of, you know, 50,000,000, 100,000,000, 200,000,000, they are designed as show houses, trophy houses. And what that means is they feel an awful lot like a hotel lobby.

Unknown Speaker (16:51): Yeah.

Sarah Walker (16:53): Not a place where you want to connect with people and that supports recovery. And so we're trying to change that whole narrative and say, you can have a gorgeous home that you absolutely will, you know, see in a magazine or be excited to host and entertain, but we lead with how we want the home to feel and function. Those are our primary concerns because that's what creates that retreat at home. Not everything is a Zen garden and passive. There's plenty of active spaces, but it actually promotes recovery because you're not having those things that are undermining your health and well-being.

Arthur (17:30): It totally makes sense to me. The opportunity to there's a normal push and pull between the builder and the architect unless they're one and the same, right? The architect designs it, the builder says it can't be done, then they have to have the meeting in the minds, the whole thing, the whole process. Change orders, we can't put a wall in, whatever, all that stuff is normal. And then you bring in another element that complicates things, right?

Arthur (17:58): I'm not saying it's good or bad, I'm just saying if one cares, needs to be considered. Are you experiencing a lot of pushback from the builder and the architect in these efforts here or

Unknown Speaker (18:14): are they Well, here's

Unknown Speaker (18:15): accepting?

Sarah Walker (18:16): That's a great question because here's what we do differently. Because I've been doing this for over twenty years, got my degree in interior design and art and business, I also got a construction management certification so that I could understand what's going on from the construction side and eliminate those pain points and attention that you're referring to because it is so common. So I've reframed it as a three legged stool. You have a builder that builds from the ground up. You have an architect that's responsible for the home from the outside in and the designer that's responsible for it from the inside out.

Sarah Walker (18:51): And together, successful, you should have a really complete, useful, wonderful project that the client loves. And what I like to do is be very selective about the builders and architects with whom I work because it is so much about the experience. The clients can spend their money on a variety of things. They're choosing to spend it on a home that is going to be meaningful to them, often a legacy estate because that's our specialty. And they are looking for not just, okay, a great thing at the finish line.

Sarah Walker (19:23): They also want a wonderful experience throughout it. So what I have done is worked really hard to figure out what are those common pain points. And often it is that we don't get all parties aligned, and that's where the conflict and the tensions happen. So what I've done is I take the model that the architect designs for the the shell of the home, and I make sure that that is completely rendered in three d inside and out. So not just the outside that the architect does.

Sarah Walker (19:55): We actually build out the full three d model to scale inside. So every faucet, every light fixture, every piece of furniture and art is modeled to scale inside.

Unknown Speaker (20:06): Wow.

Sarah Walker (20:06): And what that means yeah. You you get it. What that means is the client can see everything before it's built, and they can see how it looks and feels. So that when a wall goes up, there's not the, oh, that's not what I expected moment. That's completely eliminated.

Sarah Walker (20:22): And there's not the, we think it's gonna cost this much to buy that tile. We're not really sure how much we'll need because we've completely drawn and rendered that out in color. So every trade that walks onto that job site, every artisan that's doing some custom bespoke element has a three d model of it, and it's all colored so they know exactly where they start and where the next person starts. It's a complete game changer and very rare in the industry. What I've also done is eliminated the need for a fourth person, a wellness adviser, to come in with a completely different perspective.

Unknown Speaker (20:58): Right.

Sarah Walker (21:00): So what we typically see at this level, it well, really, the only other option is you have a builder, architect, designer, and a wellness adviser. The problem is traditionally with that model that you have the interior designer that's very creative and artsy and, you know, wants everything to look really beautiful. And then you have the wellness adviser that wants to come in and have it, you know, meet HIPAA requirements, have us a place for the PT and the masseuse to be able to come in or the IV person. And they're thinking about it through a very scientific, practical, clinical lens. And you can see how those are kind of diametric opposites that don't play well together.

Arthur (21:40): Yeah.

Sarah Walker (21:41): So you have yet another tension point. So because of my own health journey and twenty years of of really enjoying science and research and tech, I've combined those two disciplines and said, you know, here's the the source of truth for the builder and the architect, and we own that for the the project so that the client has the best possible experience. That it becomes enjoy an enjoyment instead of a pain because they could be on a vacation in Bali, but they're choosing to build this house and invest in this way. So we wanna make it amazing.

Arthur (22:16): Yeah. Listen. No matter how optimistic you are, and I'm not trying to be negative, is when you're going through a huge construction project, there's you have to be prepared for the bumps and turns in the road. Right? Or else you won't enjoy it.

Unknown Speaker (22:31): You have to be prepared for that. Right?

Unknown Speaker (22:33): Right. Yep. What And and that's why you bring on a team of experts too.

Arthur (22:37): Yeah.

Sarah Walker (22:37): Like, I like to work with builders and architects that are the one percent of the 1% just like my clients. So that when you're getting that expertise, you're getting the experience of how to handle those bumps. And oftentimes, it never even hits the radar of the client because we've taken care of it.

Arthur (22:55): So oftentimes, engineers build software product that they think are beautiful and useful, and no one cares. I'm not suggesting that's what you're doing, but are there enough people that really care deeply about doing it this way that your deal flow and your opportunities to do this good work? Is it more than you can handle? Are you looking for more clients? What are enough people that take this seriously?

Arthur (23:31): And I'm going to use and profile for a second while in the middle of this question, that oftentimes people who weren't brought up in that environment where there was help and wealth and endless amounts of money and a nice home, Well, all of a sudden, you know, a basketball player is making $300,000,000 or whatever it is, and they don't care about any of this. They just want to build this showplace. Is there enough of the people that really care for for for you to engage with?

Sarah Walker (24:05): Great question. The for me, I since I've been doing this for twenty years, it's been, I think, an emerging market, the wellness component. Now I would say every family office conference has a keynote address about wellness and longevity, and that this is the fastest growing industry in the world. Wellness and longevity are anticipated to be a $10,000,000,000,000 market by 2030. And the real estate around wellness is the fastest growing sector of real estate.

Sarah Walker (24:41): And that is because post pandemic, in times of political and global turmoil, people start reflecting on how they feel and how they feel physically and emotionally and mentally. And it is a huge sign right now where we have all of those things converging as well as all of the tech. Most of the the tech that we're starting to see is really circulating around wellness. So at the big events in, like, Las Vegas, CES, where they are promoting, you know, here's the groundbreaking innovation. It's how many biomarkers can we give you a readout in your private home?

Sarah Walker (25:20): And, we're also seeing, you know, whether it's an athlete, a professional business person, entrepreneur, a family office, they are starting to understand at a higher level than ever before that health is wealth, That their success is directly tied to how well they're sleeping because that determines the next day how great their decision capacity is.

Arthur (25:44): Optimal performance. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. It's re it and I forget the name of the guy that's the billionaire that's spent a couple million dollars a year.

Arthur (25:53): I'm not sure he's still doing it now.

Unknown Speaker (25:55): Ryan Johnson. Yes. He is.

Unknown Speaker (25:56): Yeah. Yeah. He was a poster child for all of this. Right?

Unknown Speaker (25:59): Yeah.

Arthur (26:00): Yeah. A little extreme, but who knows?

Sarah Walker (26:04): Yeah. The the things that he's putting out are basically he's funding himself as a private lab that is moving the needle for the industry as well. So that cascading effect that we talked about, that's my hope with my business and and the impact that I'm hoping to make on the world is what he's trying to do in the, really, health and longevity space. And there is a tremendous appetite for how do we optimize things. You think about peptides, you think about the GLP-one, you think about the plastic surgery industry, you think about all of these wellness specialists that come into the homes of the, you know, clients that you have, that you're working with.

Sarah Walker (26:45): They've optimized every aspect of their life to feel better, to look better, to live longer, except their home. And this is really the last frontier. And they don't even know that they can ask for this service because we're really the only ones that are doing it at this level, where we're talking about aging in place, which we really prefer is living in place, the biophilic design, the neuro aesthetics, the ergonomics, the workflow, integrating staff so you don't feel like you're in a goldfish bowl. A really true multifaceted approach that's deeply personalized is really unheard of. And we are saying that there's a better way to live and that this is the foundation of your life where you spend a third of your life is in your home, you know, regardless of what residence it is.

Sarah Walker (27:33): And so here, people are optimizing, I think, more at the top of the pyramid where it's the the fitness trainers and the masseuse and the peptides and the private chef that's, you know, giving you a high protein diet. But really where you sleep every night, the air and water quality that you experience every minute, which is often 90% of our lives is indoors, is focused in your home. And nobody else in my space is saying, let's do it better. And so that's our mission.

Arthur (28:04): I asked you whether there there's enough business for this, and I already knew the answer because, you know, today there's gonna be minted billionaires. Like, we can't even count how many because of SpaceX going public. Right. And that's just one of many. There's developers in San Francisco that are making $50,000,000 a year at Anthropic.

Arthur (28:28): Like it's crazy what's going And there's immense amount of wealth being made. And, you know, as you get older, as I am getting older, you, you, you, you know, people say this all the time, but holy crap, you better pay attention more so than ever. And you know, misspent youth and all that kind of stuff. But I think that, you know, people are, they're not drinking. Happy hour is at the gym.

Arthur (28:58): You know, there's, there's, it's trending. I mean, even if you're not super wealthy to afford what you're doing, I think people are more mindful about what's going on. You know, I don't know how long it's going to take for the person in a $3,500 200 square foot apartment in New York City to give that up just because there's toxic stuff in the walls. I don't think that's gonna, you know, there's a trade off there, right? You ought to be in New York City that sometimes you have to do that as a kid or whatever.

Arthur (29:26): But I, my sense is there's going to be endless amounts of people that if they could get your attention, they would just engage it, right, immediately. Right.

Sarah Walker (29:37): And to your point, this often they're in their twenties and thirties, and they're new millionaires as a result of the tech. That's one of our largest emerging clientele groups. But what they do when they come to us is they are very educated about wellness, and they are very cognizant of the risk of burnout and the fatigue of constantly being in front of a screen, for example. And so what they do is they come to us and have us create tech free areas, highly engaging, inviting spaces that encourage human engagement and interaction and con connection, especially for their children. Our focus on the rising air is massive now because these families, even millennials, are also understanding that the greatest legacy that they can pass on is actually health.

Sarah Walker (30:27): And so my hope is is that, you know, for that person living in New York City in that apartment, that the tech will become accessible enough that we can have high powered air filtration and and monitor that. It exists where you can just check your app and see what your air quality in your home is like. And that nontoxic furnishings will not be something that's reserved for people that have the bandwidth and the the funds to build custom to ensure that every component is nontoxic but will become a a shelf off the shelf item. That's my hope.

Arthur (31:02): Yeah. So is that available now to anybody who gets downloads an app and they can test their air quality and home, or is it more sophisticated?

Sarah Walker (31:10): It's a little more sophisticated. You need to put the unit in that is is monitoring and pulling the air and filtering it. And so once it runs through the filtration system, you can check the levels, at the output is really the goal is it's cleaning it and you're checking it. But, you know, there's just the tech is evolving so quickly. Year over year, we're seeing it because there is a huge demand for it, especially with these tech focused billionaires that they understand that they are a product of their environment.

Sarah Walker (31:44): I think we all do to some level, but they're seeing it almost evolve rapid or more rapidly because they're in front of a screen. They're involved in tech. They have an awareness of what's going on at the very high level.

Arthur (31:58): And rather than in many cases, was just running to nature. Right? Okay. I just need to get outside.

Sarah Walker (32:03): Right. Right. Which still is a huge benefit. Like, all this tech is really wonderful, but something that absolutely moves the needle, like I said, in three to five seconds is a view of nature.

Arthur (32:15): Yeah.

Sarah Walker (32:16): And that that is scientifically proven. I write articles on LinkedIn all the time about that this the scientific proof is there. You recover quicker based on literally how many more trees you see.

Arthur (32:27): It's unbelievable how effective it is and but it's unmistakable if you you if you know what it feels like, you know, again, what it feels like. It's like muscle memory. Right?

Sarah Walker (32:40): Mhmm. And for those people that are in an urban environment where nature isn't available to them, we use natural materials. We're using nature inspired art, earth tone color palettes. You know, all of those different things are amped up versus a home that has a green belt or blue space, which is like the ocean or a lake. And in fact, I'm doing a speaking engagement with the Rockefeller Group about the intersection of neuroscience and blue space, which is like the ocean and how that impacts us.

Sarah Walker (33:13): Because it is so key to these families that they understand, okay, if we can buy a home anywhere or this is our fifth home or we want to design it in such a way that we encourage this legacy of of health. How do we do that? We want to begin optimizing the home just like we've optimized our calendar and our business and, you know, our peptide regime. We want to to also encourage them to, you know, put the circadian lighting in their home, put the higher quality mattress in so that it moves the needle in a very tangible way.

Arthur (33:48): And isn't it true I I I don't wanna get into the weeds necessarily, but all this movement to non incandescent lighting, it's all really bad for us. Right?

Sarah Walker (34:01): The the LED lighting is is quite problematic because it strobes imperceptibly, But once again, to our nervous system, it is perceptible. And so it's a it's constantly undermining and agitating. And so, absolutely, when we're putting in that circadian lighting, it is a non strobing light product, and it's it's very special and calibrated so that it is one of those things that isn't quietly undermining your health and well-being in the home. Absolutely.

Arthur (34:31): It's really interesting. You know, I grew up in a generation where you just ran through walls, did whatever you had to do, lived with the inconveniences, didn't really understand all this stuff. And the people who had parents that were, you know, hippie dippie, we would sort of dismiss them because it didn't seem to add up. Right? But that has changed so dramatically.

Sarah Walker (34:56): For sure. For sure. I think that, you know, it's fascinating what science is catching up with that group that knew and we're very aware of, okay, if I wear plastics, you know, the Lycra, the the spandex, whatever it is, there's going to be downstream impacts to that. And we're seeing them. We're seeing them in real time with with so many health issues.

Sarah Walker (35:20): And I think people are very aware that there's things within our control that we can move the needle. The problem is, like I mentioned at the beginning, there's just so much noise. And our goal and and our role in the home design is to cut through that noise. We've done the research. We have the the brands that we know are actually doing what they say they're going to do.

Sarah Walker (35:44): And that is a huge relief to families, and then they get the benefit of living better and feeling better in the final home.

Arthur (35:51): Yeah. And it's okay if it's not perfect. Right? Just like we go to the Whole Foods and we buy organic food and we don't know really how organic it is, but it's the best we can do right now. Right?

Arthur (36:01): So it's better to do that than not.

Sarah Walker (36:05): Right. Then do nothing and have that decision paralysis. And that's honestly, so many of my clients come to me with that. They're overwhelmed. They have the decision paralysis.

Sarah Walker (36:13): They know all the the information out there, but they don't know how to translate that into a physical home. And so really that's what what gets me out of bed every day is the opportunity to help families live better, have a better quality of life, support the rising gen because they are already so overwhelmed. It is very daunting with the world of social media and their whole lives being recorded to then come home to a home that feels like a hotel lobby and doesn't help them decompress and unwind. I think they're the ones that are the most impacted by everything going on because they've been raised in the digital era with really no reprieve. And so we want to create spaces where they can unwind and relax and reset their nervous system.

Sarah Walker (37:03): Of course, we want that for the adults too. The goal is recovery and healing your nervous system. And that isn't such a hippie concept as it was ten years ago. The research is now there.

Arthur (37:15): Yeah. So speaking of research, and you could comment on this or not. I mean, there are people that are really worried about Wi Fi in the household. Is this an issue?

Unknown Speaker (37:27): It is.

Unknown Speaker (37:27): What have you discovered?

Sarah Walker (37:29): Yeah. So we install EMF blockers. There's definitely just like with anything, you think about food sensitivities, there's also a spectrum of EMF sensitivity. It's it's very real. And it's been linked to, in some extreme cases, you know, living near power lines, for example, have a significantly notable higher rate of cancer.

Sarah Walker (37:53): There are definite scientific studies where it's not just a loose correlation, is it is a causation. And so we want to say absolutely this is an option. And I mentioned that you can have EMF blockers, throughout the home, on the whole home, in certain rooms, like bedrooms, I highly recommend because that EMF coming in, electromagnetic frequency does interrupt sleep for some people. And you, you know, it's just kind of one of those inconveniences that we've just been taught to live with, but some people are just more sensitive. And, and we think about that holistically through the home.

Sarah Walker (38:33): There's neurodiversity. There's all sorts of, special needs that people have, especially as we span generations in these multigenerational estates that we want to design for everyone to feel like they have a place. So if there's a sensitivity, if there's a unique need, if there's some level of personalization that we can provide, we want to do that.

Arthur (38:54): So again, you don't have to answer this in any detail way or not at all. The money is usually not the impediment to get this done. Right. And if you had to say, this add depending on the spectrum or the continuum of how much of this you want to do, does it add 50% to the cost of doing something? Does it add 30?

Sarah Walker (39:17): Good question. Because it's not so much that we're saying, you know, your faucet might have been stainless steel and now it has to be gold plated and that's double the cost. We're actually saying we need to pick a material for your shower wall. It can either be a man made material or it can be a natural material, and the cost isn't that much different in many cases. It tends to be the intention and the knowledge of saying this material is correct and best in this application and will impact longevity.

Sarah Walker (39:50): And we also are thinking about the materials and the the finishes and fixtures and furnishings that they're heirloom quality. So they're not just something that, okay, it checked the the boxes for looking good for the photo shoot and, you know, it's not gonna off gasp, but actually that it is the highest quality in construction as well. So that we're not then just putting something in the landfill in five years because it fell apart or, you know, degraded over time. So we're very cognizant about the whole life cycle of the product. And so at this level, they're already getting that.

Sarah Walker (40:24): They're already paying for that in many cases. We're just saying we're gonna specify every component in that chair or that sofa or that cabinet. And it might cost a little bit more, but it's the intentionality of, okay, this vendor we know or this artisan can make that, and they understand our stipulations of it has to be nontoxic. So really the the cost isn't so much the issue as it is the tremendous amount of legwork and research that we've done to find those partners.

Arthur (40:56): And the time it takes to get that product because it's probably in demand. Right?

Sarah Walker (41:01): It it can be or it can be that there's a very small shop that will provide it. And it's very exclusive and rare because only a few people will be interested in paying that upcharge to have formaldehyde free glue. And maybe, you know, there's some products that are harder to work with and they're less accessible because they're not mass produced with all of the chemicals and fillers. It's very similar to food. You know, you pay a little bit more and it's organic, but you have to know where to go.

Sarah Walker (41:32): You have to know what that looks like and what what that the quality markers are. It's not so much that it's exponentially more expensive.

Unknown Speaker (41:42): Yeah. Outsourcing.

Unknown Speaker (41:44): Yes.

Unknown Speaker (41:46): Sarah, I don't wanna tell you. This sounds like a lot of work.

Unknown Speaker (41:48): It is. It is.

Arthur (41:50): Yeah. And we're not afraid of work. I'm not saying that. But it's like you have to build a people and a firm and a skill set and sourcing. I mean, takes time, right?

Sarah Walker (42:04): It does. It does. And we're, you know, very unique with our modeling team that does the models in three d and the rendering. Most interior design studios do not have that. That's much more of an architecture side.

Sarah Walker (42:16): But I've said, you know, this makes a difference for my client's experience to not have these friction points where they're not sure from this little tiny sample of stone to how that translates to a ginormous two story wraparound stairwell.

Unknown Speaker (42:32): Right.

Sarah Walker (42:32): You know, it's it's a totally different experience. So if I can show that and make it more real for them, what an incredible experience they're getting because now it takes all of the, oh, am I making the right decision? I don't know.

Unknown Speaker (42:46): Makes it easier for sure. Yeah.

Sarah Walker (42:48): Yep. And then they have the builder and architect that are on board. Everyone's aligned. It saves often, I've seen in in some cases, to $5,000,000 in rework and waste in RFIs, change orders, or we didn't order the right material because we didn't have, you know, a color view of it or we didn't order enough. So now we need to wait twelve weeks for the stuff to come from Italy.

Sarah Walker (43:13): You know, you can just see how having incomplete documentation adds months and millions of dollars. So where we maybe charge more to have a higher quality wellness product, we are saving the same amount, if not more on the type of documentation that prevents errors.

Arthur (43:32): You know, it's all in the, in the spirit of all boats rising. One of the areas that we're aware of that corporations and big consulting firms like PwC and all that are allocating budgets. It's cybersecurity tech. And then, you know, that combination of that AI. And the next thing that has just emerged, you're probably aware of this, is the wellness budgets are ballooning.

Unknown Speaker (43:59): Yes.

Arthur (44:01): Just because they've seen the correlation between keeping their employees healthy and productive. I mean, there's no disputing that at all.

Sarah Walker (44:10): Right. Exactly. And changing how the environment of the workplace is, they know has a tremendous impact. If they have, you know, fluorescent lights and gray walls and you're in a windowless office, you're not gonna get the same output as someone that is in a beautiful, healthy environment. We call it, you know, sick building sick building syndrome, where actually going to work makes people physically ill because the building was made with all sorts of chemicals and toxins.

Sarah Walker (44:41): And so I believe that the best employers are really taking into account the wellness component. And hospitals have been doing it for decades, but it hasn't been happening at the same level in homes until very, very recently as, you know, this is this discussion is evolving in real time. It's it's so rewarding to see that things that we've been doing for twenty years now are becoming main stream and it and recognized as moving the needle for people.

Arthur (45:10): So where is from a business development perspective, and I'm asking this in the spirit of the audience potentially being of some help or customers as well, are the architects and the builders your best source of engagement for people that would benefit from what you're doing? Is it the families themselves? What, what works best or hierarchy of that?

Sarah Walker (45:36): Often, that's a great question because we- we get our sources all word-of-mouth from a variety of places. The advisors to the families are often our best advocate because they see the things that we also solve downstream. So being able to speak to the staff before any architectural plans are even drawn and saying what do you need for space allocation and circulation means that there's less turnover in the staff

Unknown Speaker (46:05): Yeah.

Sarah Walker (46:05): After the home is built.

Arthur (46:06): Staff's a problem. Right. I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but it's a I mean, just think it because you have to be mindful of them and their families, and it not that you shouldn't. I'm saying it it's really important to consider all that stuff.

Sarah Walker (46:19): It is. It is. They are they are basically living with the family and the they they have to be taken into account significantly and modern homes do not do that. The open concept does not support having staff and not feeling like you're in a goldfish bowl. For for both the family and the staff, it doesn't work.

Sarah Walker (46:38): So we want to be forward thinking and providing the family office with an operating manual, then how to take care of everything that we've just specified and that the family has paid us millions of dollars to do so. We want to make sure that that table that we had custom made by an artisan, one of a kind in Europe is used and taken care of correctly by the staff, that we have the right cleaners, that we're not putting something on there that's gonna damage it, that it's gonna look beautiful forever. So we are thinking through the whole life cycle of the house so that it actually works for decades and even generations. So those advisers understand the pain points that we eliminate for them. We also mitigate risks.

Sarah Walker (47:22): So we will do an analysis on the front end for the advisers and the families about if this property would support, you know, the level of wellness that we bring or if they're deciding between a couple properties, which one's gonna be better suited for the family. So we work with, you know, the wealth managers, the staffing agencies, the estate managers are also an a wonderful source for us. Builders and architects, of course, and that's, you know, pretty typical. But where we really shine and help out the family is thinking about their children and the rising gen and how we're we're thinking of the home as not just an asset, but something that has that legacy of health.

Arthur (48:03): Is there anything, I imagine it's all over the map literally. Like are there was a mass exit from urban areas with COVID and so a lot of people moved. I'm going to pick on Idaho and they said, holy crap, we can't live here and then move back. Right. Idaho is beautiful.

Arthur (48:20): I'm not, I'm just picking on them for no, no reason. Is there still that? Is it, is it for the people that are only going to have one or two places? Are they comfortable being in the wilderness or they still need, I guess I'm going answer my own question. It's a function of how old your kids are, whether they need schools or not.

Sarah Walker (48:41): That's a big piece. Also, you know, medical care, if there is a need for potentially, you know, emergency services, I find that that families often have one that's maybe more urban and then a vacation home that's a little bit more rural, that they can have, you know, more of a sprawling space with some land. One thing that I found really interesting lately are the family wellness retreats where they are valuing privacy and discretion, and so they don't want to go to a commercially operated hospitality place. They're building their own in Montana and Idaho, And it will have, like, a family compound with a main location where they're gathering for the the meals and the events, the fundraisers, you know, whatever hosting events they wanna do. But then there's the adjacent homes that are for the kids and the grandkids.

Sarah Walker (49:33): And what that allows us to do is support the family with wellness and a wellness retreat, very much like a boutique hotel, but it's for the family, for their friends, especially business partner, engagements. And, and you don't have to worry as much about the security risks, which is a big layer that we incorporate too.

Arthur (49:54): That would be my preference. And I'm not trying to be anti social. I just super private. Yeah. What, what, what about the, is there a, is it interesting to you?

Arthur (50:05): And is there a business there for somebody who's considering buying somebody else's estate that is of the caliber that they might consider buying something that's already built for you to go in and say, you know, here's all the problems.

Sarah Walker (50:20): Absolutely. And that that is exactly what we do for the families and the advisors is we have a review that we do of the home where we will say, you know, here's how it meets your needs. Here's how it might not. Do you want to, you know, purchase it as is? Do you wanna look at how we can reshape it?

Sarah Walker (50:39): Or do you want to consider another property? And about 50% of our work is renovations and 50% is new construction. We are very much dealing with that.

Unknown Speaker (50:49): Yeah.

Sarah Walker (50:50): And that's a great way for families to get to know me as well to to do that. It's a risk analysis, basically, where we come in and we say, as a wellness advisory, as an interior designer, here's the risks and opportunities with this property and do a full write up, a ninety minute call with the families to talk about kind of the the opportunities that they have with this property and if it's really the best fit for them. Absolutely. We do that all the time.

Arthur (51:19): That's super valuable, I would think, because there are, you know, we've looked at some just magnificent properties and dismissed them for other reasons, but I hadn't even thought about. We think about that in terms of the gym and the red light sauna and all that, but and we're cognizant that there's, you know, stuff that could be embedded in the construction materials, but it's good to know that you're to have somebody look at that in a deep and meaningful way.

Sarah Walker (51:50): Absolutely. And then if they decide they want to continue on with a renovation of some sort, reshape the property so it's more personalized to them, we can gauge, you know, how much or how little needs to happen because we've already done that, risk and wellness advisory with them.

Arthur (52:07): Is there any trending in terms of geography that you see? I mean, there's a lot of people that went to Montana, Wyoming, Utah with COVID that drove drove a lot of people to those areas. Is there is there any trends that you see now?

Sarah Walker (52:24): Absolutely. So one of the key trends that we're seeing and that mostly I'm seeing firsthand because we're in Seattle, Washington is the significant exodus from, Washington state and California as a result of the tax changes, of the millionaire tax. And so we have, you know, Bezos, of course, a couple of years ago, and now Schultz up the with Starbucks that have relocated to Florida. And so, when I talk to my builders that are are nationwide, they'll tell me that construction has has virtually come to a halt in the state of Washington and their busiest state out of, you know, maybe the 10 or so that they are actively doing work, Florida's the busiest. And so funny enough, we will be relocating to, Tampa, Florida, like I mentioned, because of of that exodus, but also to be more centrally located for our global headquarters.

Sarah Walker (53:18): And a lot of our clients have multiple properties. And what the other trend we're seeing is they are buying more outside The US as a result of the political climate. And so Europe, maybe with the exception of The UK right now, because they're going through some similar tax things, we're seeing a lot of of movement in Spain and Portugal. And I would say Italy because, you know, what's not to love about Italy? I did my semester abroad there and, you know, we we will never say no to a project in Italy.

Arthur (53:48): Yeah. Well, we went to Greece and Italy last year, and it was Sicily and Southern Italy.

Unknown Speaker (53:54): Life changing, right?

Arthur (53:56): Yeah, it's just, you know, we're of Greek descent. So we have heritage in that part of the world, but you know, it is just an enriching place for anybody to visit independent of your heritage. And I mean, they've got their issues, of course, but it's really a different way of life altogether. And we have family in Greece, which is, you know, still in the village. And so it's a totally different experience to go there when you have people still living in the little village.

Unknown Speaker (54:28): It's really enriching.

Unknown Speaker (54:32): Yeah. So

Arthur (54:34): I really appreciate you doing this. It's fascinating. I've learned a ton and I know the audience is going to appreciate hearing from you. So thanks for making the time to do this.

Sarah Walker (54:42): Thank you, Arthur. I love the thoughtful questions and it's just been a joy to chat with you and and learn about your experience too because, you know, there's just so much opportunity for families to have a great quality of life and and not just longevity, but well-being. And so I appreciate you spotlighting that.

Arthur (55:01): Yeah. No. I think it's really important and definitely trending. So Yes. It that's good.

Arthur (55:07): Yeah. Thank you everybody for joining us today. Till next time.