The Power of Sacred Plants: Healing and Awakening.

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Hello, welcome everybody to
another episode of Arthur's

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Round Table.
We are super grateful for the

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community engaging with this
podcast and thankful for the

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family office insights,
community sharing with others.

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And so thank you very much for
doing that.

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We really, really appreciate it.
I have to thank our friend in

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Greece, a fellow Greek who
introduced me to Tio Elia, and

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she has a really interesting
community and organization and

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encourage you all to look at it.
We'll mention it in the notes

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when we send this out, but she's
recommended if we talk to Tio.

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Tio and I had a short chat the
other day and I was totally all

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in to to hear his story.
So I'm really glad to do this

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today with you, Tio.
Thanks for being here.

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Thank you for the opportunity.
I'm very much looking forward to

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this.
I was very inspired by our short

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chat and.
He's super kind.

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Thank you.
Yeah, me too.

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So let's start at the very
beginning about your where you

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started your career and how this
all unfolded.

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Yeah, sure.
So I so my journey started.

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My spiritual journey started at
the age of 24 and at that time I

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was working as a software
developer at Amazon in Seattle.

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My dog is having some allergies.
That's OK, It's contributes to

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the spirit of this, right?
So at the time I was working as

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a software developer at Amazon
in Seattle.

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I was 24.
My life on the surface looked

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perfect.
I had a job that I loved.

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It was paying me really well.
My life was was I enjoyed it

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even though I was indulging
excessively in certain habits

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which would be considered
negative or addictions.

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I personally just saw it as
living the life.

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And then I, I had no intentions
of changing anything.

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And at the age of 24, I had my
first LSD experience.

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I've been doing, you know,
substances before that, but I

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had LSD for the first time at 24
and.

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Is it, is it fair to say just
for the group?

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Like it's not, it's totally
normal at that age to be a party

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boy and have fun and do all the
stuff that you do at 24.

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Like, you know, it's totally
normal.

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You've got a good job, you got
some money to spend.

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You know, there's nice community
up there.

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The other people have money, go
out, have cocktails, do drugs,

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whatever it is, it's totally
normal, right?

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Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I, I got into that at

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the age of 16.
So I started with some, you

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know, over the counter
substances which I was abusing

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and I got into smoking.
And so I'd been smoking about 20

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or 30 cigarettes a day for about
9 years.

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And like I said, I loved it.
It wasn't something I saw it as

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as a negative.
I just enjoy.

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And along with that, you know,
alcohol started much later, but

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I was doing other substances
which I found better than

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alcohol.
That was the only reason I did

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not drink alcohol.
And so, yeah, like it, it was,

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you know, I was part of the
whole normal culture that people

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indulge in at that age.
At least, you know, in my time

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they used to.
I feel like now there's more

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awareness and there are
different choices people are

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making.
But at that time, about 11 years

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ago, that was very much the, the
normal thing to do.

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And so, you know, this LSD
experience was just so

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beautiful.
It it did not become spiritual

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but just opened me up to another
world and.

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Stuff, Yeah.
Yeah, and, and it did change my

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life in realizing that there is
so much beyond what we see with

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our normal lives.
But at this time, you know, it

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was still very much.
I got high and I was very much

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into getting high.
And then I had heard that

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ayahuasca is the most powerful
psychedelic.

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So I said, OK, if LSD is so
amazing, ayahuasca will just be

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100 times better than this.
So let's do some Ayawaska and

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get even more high.
Like I had not studied or

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researched Ayawaska at all had,
you know, not really understood

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that it's a sacred plant.
It's a sacred medicine that's

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used for healing and for
awakening consciousness.

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So I basically just through a
series of very magical

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circumstances, landed up in
Brazil at a centre where the

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focus was spirituality and
healing, but I had no personal

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interest in that.
So I basically my my whole ego

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narrative was, well, I grew up
in India.

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I have got training to ignore
religion and spirituality for 24

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years.
So I can just go to this place,

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ignore all the BS and go and get
high.

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And the only reason I chose the
place was that it was a very,

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you know, like comfortable place
to be instead of going into a

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shaman's Hut or something more
intense like that.

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Or in Brazil it's also legal.
Like it's the churches that do

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ayahuasca.
And I had no interest in church

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and religion.
So it was more of a luxury thing

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than going to Peru in the middle
of the exactly tourist and yeah,

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roughing it and having the, I
don't want to call it the true

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ayahuasca experience, but it's
not necessarily associated with

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luxury surroundings, right?
I mean, see it, it wasn't super

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luxury, it was just, it was nice
and it was clean and it was

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comfortable.
And like, that was the main

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thing.
I, I wasn't really looking for

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super luxury, even though those
options exist nowadays, like 11

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years back, you know, there were
less options.

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And I really just want, so
basically the magical

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circumstance that landed me here
was that a person I was kind of

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seeing at that time, she wanted
to come to Brazil for the World

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Cup that was happening in 2014.
And I had no interest in soccer.

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So she basically told me that
she wants to go with me to

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Brazil.
And I said, OK, I'll go with

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you.
And I just did LSD at the time

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and I, I remembered that I was
as South America, so wonderful.

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And in Brazil, there was
actually really only one center

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at the time, like one retreat
center.

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And everything else was either
churches or something very, you

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know, like indigenous rough.
And I said, OK, this place looks

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great.
I can ignore all the BS and I

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can go to this place.
So what ended up happening was

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that the ayahuasca had
completely different plans for

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me.
I went in with the intention to

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get high.
And right from the first

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experience, it just blasted open
my consciousness.

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And for the first time, I had a
direct experience of higher

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consciousness, the mystical and
the divine.

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And you know, what I wanted the
listeners to know is like this

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story contains a lot of power.
Like I'm not just sharing it for

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you to get to know me.
I'm also sharing it because

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there's something very powerful
in this is that there's a big

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narrative in spirituality that
you have to believe in order for

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it to work for you.
Now that the whole the secret

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movement and all of this new
spirituality, it's very focused

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around belief.
If you don't believe, it doesn't

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work for you.
The more you believe it works

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for you.
And I had negative belief.

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I was super skeptical.
I was super cynical.

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I had no interest in healing
therapy of consciousness.

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I looked at it with so much
skepticism and cynicism.

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I was basically because I, I
grew up in India, right?

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It's very big over there.
And I just from a very early age

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could see through the hypocrisy.
People would say one thing and

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act in completely opposite ways.
I said, this is all, yes, none

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of this is real.
They're just brainwashing.

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And like, basically I, at the
age of 10 or 11, just woke up

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from all of that and never
believed it again.

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Even to this day, I'm not really
into all of that typical, you

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know, religion and spirituality
narratives.

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So I did not believe.
But still, I had the direct

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experience because I like, you
know, after 11 years of doing

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this work, I know for a fact
that belief is not a

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prerequisite.
Reality is not conditioned upon

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our beliefs.
Imagine if reality was

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conditioned upon our beliefs,
what this word would be everyone

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just what they want.
It's a crazy word.

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No reality is solid.
It's objective and it doesn't

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require your belief.
So higher consciousness is real,

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but you cannot have someone else
prove it for you on paper and

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read about it and say, OK,
higher consciousness is real.

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Like even if today or tomorrow
science is to prove God and the

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divine exist right, you still
not have the experience.

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So it doesn't matter if science
proves it or not until you

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connect with the divine to
higher consciousness to to the

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mystical.
So are you, are you saying,

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well, this is there's lots of
interesting things here.

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First, we talked a little bit
about this, believing that going

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into something like an ayahuasca
journey and believing that it

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has potential to have impact, is
that different than being open

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to it?
Having is right.

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You could be open to it, not
believe it, but it has the

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potential, right?
Yeah, and I both of those are

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true and I'm adding.
The third option is that even if

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you're close to it, it can still
work for.

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You, yes.
I was close and negative, right?

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I'm not just zero, like zero I
would say is maybe tending

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towards being open.
It's like, OK, I'm just, I just

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want to see what happens.
Like there's maybe some

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curiosity.
That's why you're doing it.

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I was negative.
I just wanted to get high.

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I just want to see beautiful.
I know I do not believe I'm

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going to connect with the
divine.

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And when I say divine, I don't
mean one specific God.

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For me, the divine is the
mystical.

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It's higher consciousness.
All the same.

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I don't like to define in words
because.

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It's ridiculous.
I happen to to to agree with you

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that the define the divine is
obvious.

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Like all you have to do is look
at a flower, a tree, a plant and

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there's divinity.
So you don't have to attach

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yourself to some dogmatic thing
to explain that right?

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Just one religion another.
And if you haven't a religion

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that you are attached to or have
faith with, good for you if it

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works for you.
I have no issue with that at

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all.
But I agree with you that the

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Divinity is omnipresent.
I mean, you can't deny that

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something's going on, right?
So did you?

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Did you had No Fear at all of
entering this 'cause you were

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intentionally wanting to have
the ultimate high right?

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Yeah, I mean, see, I had not
researched anything, right?

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So I did not know what can go
wrong, what is bad, really.

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What What what?
I did not believe that there's

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such a thing as a negative
experience because I had not

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read about anyone else's stuff.
The only thing I'd heard it's is

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the most powerful psychedelic in
the world.

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If I just take LSD as a
psychedelic and say OK, this is

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even more powerful, it's just
going to get better.

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That's the only possibility in
my head.

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And basically so my first
experience.

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So I had 4 experiences in that
retreat across 9 days.

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And my first experience
basically it I connected with

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the mystical, the divine and I
was having a real experience.

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I mean it was so bizarrely I was
having a multi dimensional

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experience of consciousness
where the first literally the

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first thing I experienced was
that I explored out of my body

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and I was no longer me and I
just became one with everything

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around me, which is, you know
what everyone talks about.

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But this oneness was so specific
in a sense, like I became a

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frog, I became a tree, I became
a leaf on the tree.

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I became the music that was
playing in the room.

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I was the waves moving through
the walls.

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I was, you know, like, like I
was actually experiencing so

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many of these things as though
it's I.

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So instead of being I Rohan at
the time or a man or a human, I

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was I the leaf, I was I the
tree, I was I the stone, I was I

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the frog, the music all at the
same time.

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So it was multi dimension.
It wasn't just me.

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One thing having one conscious
and multiple consciousness

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experiencing together.
And that was like, how do you

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even explain something like
that?

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And then you suddenly realize
that everything has

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consciousness and everything is
alive.

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And then you know, it became
deeper and deeper and deeper

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that experience.
So like by the end of it, I was

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00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,520
just like, there's no doubt
left.

227
00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,280
There's no questions to ask
anymore.

228
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:50,600
It's so obvious.
It's so in your face that that,

229
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,760
you know, you've got your mind
just stops at that point, yeah.

230
00:13:55,280 --> 00:14:02,080
So can we talk a little bit
about we clearly that was a an

231
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:08,880
epiphany for you and and my have
spoke to many that have had the

232
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,880
same experience or similar
experiences.

233
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:19,440
Is the process that you went
through was it is excruciating,

234
00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,680
as it often is for people where
you're purging and, and how

235
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,320
important?
There's two questions, you know,

236
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:33,280
is was the process really rough
physically and how important was

237
00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,760
it, now that you look back on
it, to have a good guide and a

238
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,040
shaman to walk you through all
that?

239
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:45,960
So you know, maybe I will get
into that slowly because my

240
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,960
first experiences, like my first
two experiences were just

241
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,560
absolutely pure bliss and
beauty.

242
00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:56,040
There was nothing tough,
intense, no purging, nothing at

243
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,600
all.
And in my second experience, I

244
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,600
saw my future and my the the
future that or like one

245
00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:04,680
potential future.
Let me let me put it this way.

246
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:09,320
And the future that was shown to
me was that I am meant to come

247
00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:15,720
and train as an Ayawas Kashama.
And it was just so obvious that

248
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that is the path I'm going to
take.

249
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You know, it wasn't something
nice to consider.

250
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,920
It was just like, yeah, this is
my future.

251
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:28,880
And I actually like the scenes
that I saw in that, in that

252
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,480
vision have actually transpired
in my life.

253
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I've actually experienced them.
And they were Deja vu moments or

254
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:38,200
like, oh, I saw this five years
ago, three years ago, seven

255
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:39,960
years ago.
Like it actually happened.

256
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,880
And so that was also super
beautiful.

257
00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:46,600
And that was the first half of
the experience.

258
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And the second-half I went to
other planets and I was like,

259
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,800
not just meeting aliens, I was
being one of the aliens who was

260
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,640
with other aliens.
And like, so I could just see

261
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,600
that, you know, there are so
many more life forms than just

262
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:04,120
being human and so many other
dimensions and reality.

263
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:09,160
So it was like, you know, it was
the experience everyone really

264
00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,000
craves for.
Like a lot of people go to

265
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,120
ayahuasca to have such
experiences.

266
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,400
They're not guaranteed that, but
that's what they want.

267
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:17,920
Like, they want this big
awakening.

268
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,000
And I was not looking for that.
Like, I was looking to just have

269
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,000
nice visuals like LSD.
But like, this was actually

270
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,840
completely different.
So if you were doing the, let's

271
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:35,800
just say the third one, were you
then looking for more of what

272
00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,840
you experienced?
So you arguably could beef

273
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,560
experience that enlightenment
even more.

274
00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,880
Or were you still trying to try?
I mean, it was at that time, it

275
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,640
was like a mix of the two
mentalities.

276
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,640
So, you know, one part of me has
realized that this is not just

277
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,080
getting high.
This is something way beyond.

278
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,720
This is not just happening in my
head, like this is reality.

279
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,440
And then there was another part
of me which was my, you know, my

280
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,760
more addictive part or the one
who just wants to make things

281
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:11,680
bigger and bigger, which was
like, OK, Day 1 was amazing.

282
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:16,480
Day 2 was way more spectacular.
And then day three will only get

283
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,760
better.
And basically we, we had the

284
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:23,200
option of asking for slightly
higher doses and especially, you

285
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,319
know, so basically the, the, the
facilitator was very experienced

286
00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:29,400
and very respectful.
And as long as you are having a

287
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,600
good experience and you are not
entering into fear, she was

288
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,600
encouraging that you can take a
bit more.

289
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,560
So I ended up taking double of
my first experience.

290
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,280
So, you know, the first time I
had 60ML, the second time I had

291
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,880
80ML and this time I went for I
think 100 or 120 ML something

292
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:50,640
some very big number and I end
up overdosing.

293
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:56,880
And that third experience was it
was not, it was not the the

294
00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:03,080
same.
It was rough in different ways.

295
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,720
Like it wasn't still as bad as I
have many other experience I've

296
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:08,240
had later.
So, you know, just for the

297
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,440
audience, like I've had
personally, I've had 600 plus

298
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:16,120
experiences with iOS for myself.
I've facilitated, yeah.

299
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,200
And I've facilitated over 5000
unique experiences for other

300
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,160
people.
So, you know, I've, I've seen a

301
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:27,480
lot of what happens for me and
what happens for other people.

302
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,400
So I like it it that's why I
said, and I'll get to it a bit

303
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,360
later because yeah, it did get
way more rough later on.

304
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,600
But even that third overdose
experience, finally, it was just

305
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,920
it was very overwhelming because
you know, one of the scenes I

306
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,440
remember from that experience
was just that I basically just

307
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:52,080
went into super ancient history
where the dinosaurs existed.

308
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,200
And then I was like zoned super
into the future where it was

309
00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:00,040
like a super different high tech
reality.

310
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,720
And so like I was just
experiencing time in this super

311
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:08,720
fast, intense way.
And it was very uncomfortable.

312
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:16,960
But the the most unbelievable
consequence of that experience

313
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:21,640
was that, like I said, I came
into this experience not wanting

314
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,160
to quit any of the substances I
was using.

315
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,920
I had no intention even during
the retreat to change that.

316
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,080
So even after I had my
awakening, I had no intention to

317
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:34,880
change that.
And you know, on up until the

318
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,720
3rd experience, I was still
smoking at the retreat center.

319
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,920
So I like I was because I
enjoyed it.

320
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:47,880
And in the third experience, I
don't even know what actually

321
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,960
happened because it was so
overwhelming and it wasn't

322
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:52,680
overdose and everything was
happening so quickly.

323
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,600
But when I came out of that
experience, I knew I had already

324
00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:03,000
quit all the substances and I
had no interest in in smoking

325
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,520
anymore and drinking anymore and
using any drugs or anything

326
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:08,640
else.
Like I was just, I knew I was

327
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,080
done with it for life.
And you had no.

328
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,960
No intention to to fix that
problem.

329
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:17,960
I mean, obviously.
I mean, it was not even a

330
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,440
problem.
It wasn't a problem, right?

331
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,040
Yeah.
So I had just woken up from that

332
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,080
experience.
Woken up as in I was awake the

333
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,400
whole time, but like I just come
into my normal consciousness and

334
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,560
realized that I'm just a
different person starting today

335
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,160
and as eleven years later, I've
not touched anything.

336
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,640
Like I had no temptations, no
withdrawals, nothing.

337
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:47,880
I was just done and that was so
unbelievable to me, mainly

338
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,640
because I had no interest in
quitting.

339
00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:52,720
You know, a lot of people come
like I've seen, I've seen over

340
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:54,800
1000 people.
I've facilitated over 1000

341
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,880
people drinking ayahs.
Can people come with those

342
00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:59,840
intentions?
They want to quit substance

343
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,560
addictions, they want to heal
all kinds of things.

344
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,880
And it's not a guarantee that
you will have that experience.

345
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,800
You know, a lot of people have
come with that intention and

346
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,000
have not had it.
I did not even go with that

347
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,680
intention and that's the
experience that I had.

348
00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:18,720
So you know, all this to say
that ayahuasca is is walking

349
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:23,560
into the unknown.
It you, you can have intentions,

350
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,400
you can have expectations, but
you really just you don't know

351
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,240
what's going to happen and well,
we.

352
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:35,280
We talked about this in, in my
experience, I've done things

353
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,600
with intention like this and the
medicine had something different

354
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,800
in mind, right?
Yeah.

355
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:53,960
It's it's arguably good to go in
with an intention, I guess, but

356
00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:58,080
the medicine usually has its own
idea of what you need, right?

357
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,960
Yeah, sorry about, you know, the
dog's fine.

358
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,440
I actually saw an animal running
behind you in the field, some

359
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,040
sort of animal way back there.
Must be another.

360
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:15,200
Dog.
Yeah.

361
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,280
Yeah, so.
Dog's totally fine.

362
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:27,880
Don't worry about it, OK?
So, yeah, it, it, it's hard for,

363
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,400
you know, normal people to kind
of get this, that the plant

364
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,600
actually has an intelligence and
it has its own intentions.

365
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,880
It, it doesn't just have an
intelligence, in my experience,

366
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,720
after 11 years working with it
is super intelligence.

367
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,920
It's way more intelligent than
we are.

368
00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:50,400
It knows what we need way more
than we do.

369
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:55,120
And we are so confined to the
limits of our mind and our

370
00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:59,120
consciousness.
And this is, you know, several

371
00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:04,000
dimensions of consciousness
beyond what we, what we usually

372
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,760
experience.
So the intelligence like, you

373
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:11,120
know, if you, if you just, you
know, looking back to, you know,

374
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,720
Einstein's court that you can't
solve problems from the same

375
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,120
level that they were created,
You need to look from a higher

376
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,760
intelligence.
Like this is not just looking

377
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,960
from a higher intense, looking
from 10 levels higher of

378
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,920
intelligence.
That's how ICIOS it's it's like

379
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,440
we can't actually comprehend
what this intelligence even is.

380
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,920
We are so impressed with AI, but
like this time ancient

381
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:38,720
intelligence that is way beyond
anything that we can create or

382
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:44,040
we can have.
And that is what you know, I I,

383
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,160
when I'm facilitating now for
people like I, I, I do my best

384
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,440
to guide them to be in the
energy of just be open to

385
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,760
receiving what the plant has in
store for you.

386
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,440
You can come with your
expectations, you can come with

387
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,240
your intention, you can come
with your scepticism.

388
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,560
And sinister like I am, I'm open
to everything because.

389
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,320
Well, you're a perfect example,
yeah.

390
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:06,480
I was that person.
Yeah.

391
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,160
Yeah, just come as you are, as
long as you are, you know,

392
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,640
willing to let the experience
take you, whereas going to be.

393
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:22,320
So talking about bad experience
or rough experiences, I I kind

394
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:27,720
of know exactly who may have a
bad experience or when they

395
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,560
would have a bad experience.
It's essentially someone who is

396
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,800
resisting the experience,
someone who doesn't want to go

397
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,080
where the plant wants to take
you.

398
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,360
Is is is in?
Is that obvious at the

399
00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:43,160
beginning?
Often times.

400
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,800
I I could tell, but I may not
tell the person that.

401
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:52,640
I may or may not tell the person
that.

402
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:55,800
Sorry, you're muted.
Sorry.

403
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,280
Yeah, OK.
Yeah.

404
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:03,040
So I may, I, I can usually see
it, I may or may not tell the

405
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,360
person that because they need to
have the experience that they

406
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:07,200
need to have.
I don't believe that there's any

407
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,080
such thing as a bad IO
experience.

408
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,440
If there is masterful
facilitation happening, if, if

409
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,560
the person knows how to guide
you through it and, and take you

410
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:21,240
back to everyday life, there
cannot be such a thing as a bad

411
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,960
IO experience.
But yeah, there are lots of

412
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,680
people who are facilitating Iowa
who have no clue what they're

413
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,040
doing or who have little
experience and they think that

414
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,040
they know everything.
I used to be that guy.

415
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:35,680
So I'm, again, I'm talking from
experience.

416
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:40,080
And after some time I was just
like, yeah, I know what I was

417
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,240
and like it it.
I only really knew I was ready

418
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,960
to graduate from my
apprenticeship after 8 years.

419
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,160
I, I went through an 8 year
apprenticeship in between that

420
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,520
there were many moments where I
felt I'm ready and I know it

421
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,920
all.
It was only after eight years

422
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,960
when I had the humility to say I
really don't know this in this

423
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,320
intelligence and what is capable
of.

424
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,880
But I've developed enough skills
that whatever happens, I am, I

425
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,640
am capable to listen and to
guide the person through that

426
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:15,360
experience.
So experience is a great yeah, I

427
00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:19,440
still can't guarantee what
someone is going to have, but

428
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,160
you know, they're usually signs.
If someone is resistant, I've

429
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,240
developed enough experience to
be able to tell.

430
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,800
What is, you know, I'm sure a
lot of people are curious that,

431
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,200
you know, we have regulatory
issues.

432
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,600
You really are not supposed to
do it in the US Often people go

433
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:43,240
to Peru or Brazil to get it done
or Costa Rica or something.

434
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:50,280
When you went there, it just was
serendipity because your

435
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,240
girlfriend wanted to see the
soccer game and it turns out

436
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,600
that was probably the best place
to do it at the time, aside from

437
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:01,600
maybe Peru or something.
Is there, is there?

438
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,880
And you're in Brazil now, so
which suggests that you

439
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,600
obviously don't want to practice
in the US because it's not

440
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,840
legal, etcetera.
I guess I'm not speaking for

441
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,840
you.
Is there any movement?

442
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:19,320
Well, let me put it this way.
Is it still a good idea for

443
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,360
somebody who wants to experience
this to come and do it in a

444
00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:28,240
place like Brazil with you, for
example, or another qualified

445
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,640
shaman?
Or is there opportunity to do it

446
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,760
in the US?
Do you think in a meaningful

447
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:40,320
way?
I personally don't recommend it.

448
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,320
You know, even if they were to
legalize it, I still wouldn't

449
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:49,280
recommend it, mainly because
this is the home.

450
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,240
The jungle is the home of the
plant.

451
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,640
And the plant, like I said, is
intelligent.

452
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:59,280
It's got a spirit, a spirit that
is very connected to where it's

453
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,200
growing, to the environment it
is in.

454
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,040
You know, you just, it's like
we, this is the, the Western

455
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,640
attitude is let's just extract
the chemicals because this is

456
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:13,760
just some brain thing and all
you have to do is get the, the

457
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:15,440
right chemicals and it's going
to work for you.

458
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,520
They, they, they literally kill
the soul and the spirit of the

459
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:20,720
substance.
That's what they're doing.

460
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,800
I believe with the magic
mushrooms.

461
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,240
They're just extracting the
cylosyphin and it's just about

462
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,360
healing.
But the actual mushrooms, like

463
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:32,160
when you there is a sacred
ceremony that happens when you

464
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,440
consume them and you do it in a
ceremonial setting, you do it

465
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,080
with the right people who you
know, they, they have been

466
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,040
initiated by the mushrooms and
said, so I was initiated as an

467
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,880
ayahuasca shaman by ayahuasca.
It was the plant that called me

468
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,080
to the plant that showed me
that, yeah, I want you to train,

469
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,280
to learn and then to guide
people.

470
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,440
It wasn't just OK.
Today I decided I want to start

471
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,080
serving iOS with people and I'm
just going to buy ayahuasca

472
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:00,600
online and start giving it out
to people.

473
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:07,920
Like in my opinion that that is
what the best somehow just never

474
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,040
seems to get is that there is
something like soul and spirit

475
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,800
in everything and that spirit
belongs in an environment.

476
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:20,600
And that's why I just always
would say forever, you know,

477
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,080
does like legalization is not
the criteria for me.

478
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,200
It's where does the where does
the experience belong?

479
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,800
And in cities.
And I know people who've done it

480
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,600
in basements in New York, and
then they've come here and they,

481
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,000
they like, they literally just
say that there's no comparison

482
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,600
to.
The as a compare, yeah.

483
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,800
So in the context of that and
we'll move on.

484
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:53,520
But I'm just curious because we
are, it seems to be convincing

485
00:29:53,760 --> 00:30:02,200
that this sort of experience
would help people that have PTSD

486
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,560
and that sort of thing.
And so that is why many people

487
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,000
in the US want to have it
legalized so it can be

488
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,720
administered with qualified
people and help these poor

489
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,360
people that have suffered in
wars and otherwise.

490
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:26,160
Do you think that there's a a
path for that and to be

491
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,320
effective aside from being in
the real environment of work in

492
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,200
the jungle, for example, do you
think that like whether it's

493
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,640
ibogaine, whether it's
ayahuasca, whether it's

494
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:41,560
psilocybin?
See, I, I think there are, there

495
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,640
are certain substances that are
very effective for healing.

496
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,400
I wouldn't personally want to
put ayahuasca into that bucket.

497
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:52,240
Really.
That's.

498
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:53,920
That's really interesting to
hear.

499
00:30:54,440 --> 00:31:00,160
And, and the reason I say that
is that it's kind of similar to

500
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,360
the point that I was making
earlier is that it's a very

501
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,640
powerful healer.
It's one of the most powerful

502
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,200
healers on the planet,
undeniably.

503
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:14,000
But that healing happens in a
much bigger context to what the

504
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,040
West focuses on.
You know, like people want to

505
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,480
heal depression, they want to
heal PTSD.

506
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:24,960
It's again very mind focused,
mind obsessed and I also works

507
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:30,960
with healing the spirit and in
my experience the spirit is the

508
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,640
source of everything that is
happening in our system.

509
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:39,440
So what people are experiencing
as mental disturbance or mental

510
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,400
health issues, that is
depression, anxiety, PTSD,

511
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,000
whatever it is, they are
symptoms.

512
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,880
They are not the actual problem
and the West focus on fixing

513
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,360
those as though they are the
problem.

514
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,080
All of these in my experience
are problems of the spirit and

515
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,360
the soul and that's what iOS
Achilles.

516
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,800
But the reason I said I don't, I
personally wouldn't want to get

517
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,480
ayahuasca into the the
pharmaceutical or clinical

518
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:08,320
setting is that it would then be
reduced to the mind.

519
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:14,200
And in my opinion, like that is
another big issue of the vessel.

520
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,640
Everything is very reductionist.
They want to reduce everything

521
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,680
down to the, the formula and
the, the, the most basic thing

522
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,080
and they just kill the
expansiveness that it holds.

523
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:30,960
And it's something, one part of
my mission, my message is that I

524
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,840
want to keep ayahuasca expansive
and, and I want, I want to fight

525
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:40,560
the narrative of the West of
reducing it to healing.

526
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,760
Like iOS has so much more than
healing.

527
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,440
Yes, it healed my soul and my
spirit.

528
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,000
I was deeply suffering and
deeply damaged.

529
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:53,400
Like I had a lot of trauma.
And I am so happy that that's

530
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,360
not the only thing that it did
for me that was a consequence.

531
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,400
Like this is one more thing
people don't realize is that

532
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,560
when your soul and your spirit
awakens, healing the mind is a

533
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,240
consequence of that.
It's not the thing you focus on.

534
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,520
And that has been one of the
biggest things I have actually

535
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,320
learned in the last three years
after graduating from my

536
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:19,400
apprenticeship because my, my,
my teacher, she was a therapist.

537
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,640
She is a therapist.
And you know, her whole model

538
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,080
was still very mind focused and
healing focus.

539
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,240
And her whole thing was to focus
on healing.

540
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,000
And it was only after coming out
of that that I start getting the

541
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,160
message from iOS is that we are
not here to focus on healing.

542
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:37,920
Healing is a Viper is a
consequence.

543
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,160
When your soul awakens, you
heal.

544
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,600
It's automatic and and the way I
see it.

545
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,320
All encompass encompassing
thing, right?

546
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,000
And you know, the, The thing is,
people are trying to heal PTSD,

547
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:51,600
then they're trying to heal
depression, then they're trying

548
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,000
to heal anxiety, then they're
trying to heal trauma.

549
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,120
It's like they're focusing on
1111 thing.

550
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,960
And the way I see it, all of
that, you can look at it as

551
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,520
baggage of darkness, I guess,
dark baggage, right?

552
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,199
You don't have the light.
Look at it.

553
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:15,320
You turn on the light, the the
darkness just dispels it

554
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,800
automatically dispels all of it,
not one thing at a time, which

555
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,560
is a linear approach.
You're literally going to the

556
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,400
source, turning on the light,
everything starts healing.

557
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,480
I'm not saying it happens
overnight, but when you focus

558
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,639
only on that and you focus on
feeding the light, the, the

559
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:37,440
darkness, it, it, it goes like
it's just how it works.

560
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:40,639
And ayahuasca is not the only
way.

561
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:42,360
Like you can turn on the light
in so many years.

562
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,120
Like in the last few years, I've
been training in multiple

563
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,199
modalities because my mission is
to awaken the light.

564
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,679
And ayahuasca is really just one
way, so very powerful way.

565
00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:55,560
I might still work with it, but
it's really not the only way.

566
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,760
And that's why there's so many
healers in the world who do this

567
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,800
kind of work.
And they don't even need to use

568
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,840
plants because they know how to
turn on the light and.

569
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,920
Breath work.
It's often said that breath work

570
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,400
is a You can get arguably to the
same place, right?

571
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,280
If if you're doing the right
methods, yeah.

572
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,400
Like there are kundalini
practices, there are tons of

573
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,440
practices.
There are so many practices that

574
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,920
can do the same thing,
Holotropic breathing, but there

575
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,320
are many practices.
The thing is that for people who

576
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:28,840
are very blocked, especially
people who are very skeptical

577
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,240
and cynical, Ayosk is very
powerful because it just takes

578
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:34,080
you there.
If you're doing it in the right

579
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,680
setting or the right person, you
can just go there if the I like,

580
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:41,080
you know, if the plant has that
intention for you, it can just

581
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,440
take you there directly.
It just bypasses all of these,

582
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,920
all of the skepticism and
cynicism and all of the blocks

583
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,400
that are there.
So, you know, when it, when it

584
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,400
comes to breath work and all, it
does require a lot of effort and

585
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,440
intention and people have to be
able to go through that for

586
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,120
prolonged periods.
I ask that you drink it once or

587
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,320
a few times.
You can probably just jump

588
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:07,480
there.
So it's super interesting if you

589
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,840
don't mind me sharing my
experience.

590
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,880
So I've done, as we've
mentioned, several plant based

591
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,920
journeys and they were all
exceptional in terms of

592
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,280
revealing things that seemingly
I had issues or problems with.

593
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,880
And I have nothing but good to
say about it.

594
00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:31,480
And I haven't been compelled
such like I'm hoping to doing

595
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,000
more, but I haven't been rushing
back to do more.

596
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:43,240
Is there Aside from your
training, was there a reason why

597
00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:49,600
you feel like it's valuable to
you or others to continue to

598
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,080
have these ayahuasca experiences
on an ongoing basis?

599
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,080
Yeah, so I mean, the reason I
had over 600 experiences was

600
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,080
primarily because it was part of
my training.

601
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,520
And, you know, each the the most
beautiful thing about ayahuasca,

602
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:09,400
which really I I do believe it
differentiates it from most, if

603
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,880
not all of the psychedelics.
Most, not all, but most is that

604
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:15,960
every single experience is
unique.

605
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,800
You cannot have the same
ayahuasca experience twice, even

606
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,920
between two people.
You know, it's like snowflakes.

607
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,240
There's every single snowflake
is unique.

608
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,800
Every single Ayawaska experience
is unique.

609
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:27,960
You will never find 2 that are
exactly the same.

610
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:33,120
And so I had to go through that
training to know within me what

611
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,240
are the, the variety of
experiences training with over

612
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:39,320
1000 people to see what are the
different experiences.

613
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,520
But now, you know, in the last
three years I've barely had, I

614
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:48,080
would say maybe a dozen
experiences, maybe a bit more.

615
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,520
And the last time I had it was
over six months ago.

616
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:55,200
So I, I don't drink very often
now because also part of my

617
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,880
training in the last three years
is how do I live in that state?

618
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,080
How do I embody that state
versus need to drink it all the

619
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:05,760
time?
So when it comes to another

620
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:10,760
person who is not training to be
a shaman or something, I would

621
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:16,920
say there is value definitely in
drinking more than once.

622
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,560
There are lots of people I've
seen who, you know, make it a

623
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,640
ritual to do something once
every year or twice a year.

624
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,000
I think that can be very
powerful.

625
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:33,200
But the main thing I would say
is that there is the call the

626
00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:35,440
plant.
Like I said, it's intelligent

627
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:39,480
and it calls you and when it
calls you is definitely a time

628
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,720
to do it.
That is a thing, something you

629
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:47,320
should not ignore.
Apart from that, you, you know

630
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,160
there are so many things to say
on this topic because some

631
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,360
people will come into the
magical thinking again.

632
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,560
I see this from experience.
If I keep drinking, I also I'll

633
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:56,320
become healed.
It doesn't work that way.

634
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,680
You.
Can just be stuck in the same

635
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,720
place, keep drinking and nothing
changes.

636
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:06,360
Things can actually get worse.
So it's not a magic bill when it

637
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,720
calls you, it can definitely do
magic in your life.

638
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,520
It called me like, you know, I
can only say that it called me

639
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,800
the first time because there's
no way I, I could have

640
00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:17,960
orchestrated that sequence of
events.

641
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:19,920
Everything just fell in place.
So perfect.

642
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:25,320
So the, the, the calling is 1
big sign that it's time to drink

643
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,440
ayahuasca.
Apart from that, I would say is

644
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:34,760
that don't abuse it, but it's a
very powerful sacred plant.

645
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,680
Like I don't even want to call
it a medicine because although

646
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,840
it heals, it's got so much more
potential.

647
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:47,480
Yeah, it's it's really
interesting to see that plant

648
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,840
based medicine is trending,
right.

649
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:57,480
I don't know whether it's a by
product of the my generation

650
00:39:57,720 --> 00:40:02,600
having done drugs at, you know,
17/18/19 because it was a thing

651
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:08,400
to do, you know, the hippie days
and then maturing as adults and

652
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,920
then seeing the value because it
was.

653
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:20,600
Now, available in the context of
healing, let's say is, is the is

654
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,720
the general.
I, I don't want to say the

655
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:27,520
general population because some
people are just opposed to

656
00:40:27,720 --> 00:40:34,400
anything like this no matter
what, but is there a, a growing

657
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,120
acceptance of doing this sort of
thing in the right context,

658
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:44,200
something that you see from your
perspective in Brazil there?

659
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,000
I mean, there are there more and
more people open to doing this?

660
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,920
Oh, yeah.
I mean, it's AI would say it's a

661
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,960
growing movement.
There's so many people who are

662
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,280
waking up to iOS.
You know, it's just spreading

663
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,880
through the collective
consciousness and more people

664
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,720
are becoming aware.
A lot of people are being

665
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:02,040
called, they're answering the
call.

666
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,480
Doesn't mean that they go to the
right place so they have the

667
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,000
best experience, but a lot more
people are doing it.

668
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:13,240
Something I wanted to say
anyway.

669
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,720
I I'll come back.
Yeah, I, I sort of convoluted

670
00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:27,640
222 questions in there because a
lot of people of my generation,

671
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,200
for example, you know, we did
drugs, We were in high school

672
00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:32,480
because that was the thing to
do.

673
00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:43,280
I was wondering, one of the
things that arguably one should

674
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:48,560
be concerned with is especially
with doing it this sort of thing

675
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,760
with people that you don't know
or professionals, is that even,

676
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,600
you know, smoking a joint with
your friend down the street now

677
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,360
as a kid, you don't even know if
there's it's been tainted

678
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,240
anymore.
It's really risky, right?

679
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,880
Yeah, so actually I, I did
remember what I was going to

680
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:09,360
say.
So go ahead before I answer your

681
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:14,200
question.
So, you know, I, I in the, in

682
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,160
the 1000 plus people that I have
facilitated, there were so many

683
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:21,800
people who were skeptical, who
had, or who had never done

684
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,080
anything in their life, like
they had not had a sip of

685
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,000
alcohol, never smoked a
cigarette, let alone joints or

686
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:28,560
drugs.
Like they were like, you know,

687
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,960
Puritans and they came and drank
iOS.

688
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,160
Like that's how much is spread
into the the collective

689
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,160
consciousness.
Is that even someone like that,

690
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,000
not just one person, but many
people like that would consider

691
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,240
doing ayahuasca because they see
it differently.

692
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,600
So I would definitely say that
the narrative is changing around

693
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,560
the in, in the US.
It's just a scheduled one

694
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:53,440
substance, which is bizarre.
And at the same time, you know,

695
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,240
there is a positive in there
because it doesn't become

696
00:42:56,240 --> 00:42:59,080
abusive.
It it does, you know, kind of

697
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,080
force people to do it in the
right setting.

698
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,520
A lot of people do travel to
South America to do it with the

699
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,000
shamans or in churches or
whatever they're doing in

700
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,760
retreat centers.
So there are, you know, some

701
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:17,200
positives to the illegality of
it, but at least the perception

702
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,680
needs to change that it's not
the same as doing cocaine or

703
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,680
heroin.
Worlds apart.

704
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,200
It's literally worlds apart.
If anything, it heals addictions

705
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,360
through those substances.
It makes people love.

706
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,080
But you know, there was another
point I wanted to make before we

707
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:38,680
get into concerns is that, you
know, on, on the topic of

708
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:42,600
healing, there's a, there's a
strong narrative in the world,

709
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:44,680
especially in the spiritual
community, in the personal

710
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:49,480
development community, that the
world needs more healing or the

711
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:54,640
world needs a lot of healing.
And my narrative is that the

712
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,640
world needs more consciousness.
It doesn't need more healing, it

713
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,920
needs more consciousness.
And conscious healing is a

714
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,400
byproduct of consciousness.
But if we just keep focusing on

715
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:08,760
healing, it actually drops our
consciousness into darker

716
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:10,920
states.
Like that's what I've seen in my

717
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,720
past decade is that the more
people focus on healing and

718
00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:17,360
trauma, it actually gets darker
and darker and darker.

719
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:22,960
Like people go into these kind
of black holes where it's, it's

720
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:27,320
like there's so much negativity
and people like, you know, then

721
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,640
people get also very angry at
the system and how everything is

722
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:36,600
broken and like those spirals
just get amplified so strongly.

723
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:38,120
So I cannot.
I feel like.

724
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,000
That that's a transition into
the whole concerns thing is that

725
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,360
it does matter who you're
drinking with and what is their

726
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,560
narrative about the world?
What is their narrative about

727
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,640
Ayahuasca?
What, how they want to

728
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,760
facilitate because if someone is
just going to take you deeper

729
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,760
into healing, but actually Into
Darkness.

730
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,400
And there's so many facilitators
who do this, you know, they,

731
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,800
they talk about healing, but
then they, they start talking

732
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,640
about what's wrong with the
world, how the system is broken.

733
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:08,680
And what is that going is it's
really just feeling a

734
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,960
negativity.
That doesn't sound like it's a

735
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,800
path to healing, bringing
people, not even further.

736
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:20,440
Do you think people do that be
intentionally or that they're

737
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,680
they're just sad sallies and
they can't get out of their own

738
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,720
way?
It's not at all intentional.

739
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:32,160
It's, it's actually very
unfortunate because it's become

740
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,000
a culture.
It's, you know, a lot of people,

741
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:37,240
they just go into these
conspiracies.

742
00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:40,280
They just go into these kinds of
narratives which are very dark.

743
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,240
And it's one of the traps on the
on the path to awakening.

744
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:48,640
Like especially for shamans in
as part of my training, I fell

745
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:52,240
into that trap very much like I
was very much that person who

746
00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:54,720
was, you know, in the darkness,
in the negativity and just

747
00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:59,360
feeding that more and more until
for whatever reason, like I just

748
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,280
call it grace.
Like I was pulled out of that

749
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,600
black grace.
Like for me, it's like all of

750
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,840
my, my whole journey has been
governed by grace.

751
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,080
Like I wouldn't say I healed
myself.

752
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,520
I wouldn't say I awakened my
higher consciousness.

753
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,200
I wouldn't say I got out of that
black hole of conspiracy and

754
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,360
darkness.
Like literally I will every

755
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,440
time.
It was just grace carrying me

756
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,320
into higher and higher states.
And my training, especially in

757
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:31,520
the last three years it I have
been, I would say I was kind of

758
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,880
the divine has been teaching me
how to facilitate grace rather

759
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:37,680
than teach people how to heal.
I say, how do we open people up

760
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,720
to grace?
How do we open people up to, to

761
00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:44,880
their, their light awake rather
than they have to do all of this

762
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,400
hard work of healing and go
through all of their traumas.

763
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,840
Like, is there another way?
And there is, like in my

764
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,680
experience, there is is grace.
So this is really interesting,

765
00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:58,400
Teo, because in some of the
experiences that I've had,

766
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:03,800
they've been with several other
people who have done these

767
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:08,400
retreats together as a group and
they continue to come back

768
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,360
together as a group to do these
things.

769
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,880
And they're like endless
seekers.

770
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,320
And they're not really, they're
there for community more than

771
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:22,280
anything else, which was pretty
obvious to me in, in my case, I

772
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:26,080
just went in the corner and
didn't really get involved in at

773
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:32,040
what anybody else was doing.
But it seems to me like, sadly,

774
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:38,360
just like human nature, people
attach themselves to how bad

775
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:42,560
things are and they find
community and, and people who

776
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,040
feel the same way and same
ideology.

777
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:53,440
So I could see how that could be
a roadblock or a path that

778
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:57,440
people go down like a slippery
slope and get involved in that.

779
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,600
It's, it's a big part of the
community, especially in iOS,

780
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:06,440
you know, because ayahuasca
tends to open up bones and, and

781
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:10,400
the darker side it, it, there is
a tendency of people to go

782
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,000
there, especially if that's, you
know, they are, they are

783
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,160
severely traumatized.
And if they don't have the right

784
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:19,360
facilitator, they actually fuel
that and they just go deeper

785
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:20,960
into that.
It's like, Oh yeah, you have

786
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,840
traumas and I need to heal it
and you need to awaken more

787
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,120
traumas.
And it's already been studied in

788
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:28,440
psychology and psychotherapy.
You know, like part of my

789
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,720
training was psychotherapy and
psychology, like it's already

790
00:48:31,720 --> 00:48:34,880
been studied there that there is
such a thing as re traumatizing,

791
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,360
of course, and do get re
traumatized.

792
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:46,160
And you know, it is unfortunate,
but there is the, the best we

793
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,440
can do is to talk about or bring
more awareness about that and

794
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:53,360
offer opportunities that are
different, offer opportunities

795
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,240
that provide a completely
different part.

796
00:48:55,320 --> 00:49:00,160
And you know, like that is one
of the the big missions I am on

797
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:03,680
is that these are the messages I
want to get out into the world

798
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,720
because I don't see a lot of
people talking about this.

799
00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:09,200
Honestly, like a lot of the
people who are in the iOS

800
00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:12,440
community or in the spiritual
community, they are just very

801
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:16,240
focused on healing and digging
into traumas deeper and deeper

802
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:18,200
and deeper.
And I used to be that person.

803
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:22,280
So, you know, I'm not judging it
like I am literally just wanting

804
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:27,840
to, to wake people up from that,
that kind of black hole, which

805
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,960
sucks everyone, you know?
So you said it really elegantly

806
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,360
before and I'm going to ask you
to try to say it again.

807
00:49:35,240 --> 00:49:41,440
You said the healing of the
traumas and depression ends up

808
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:45,080
being a by product of awakening
the consciousness.

809
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,560
Is that how you put it?
Yeah, awakening, soul, spirit,

810
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,280
consciousness, whatever word you
want to use.

811
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,960
I don't care, honestly.
Awakening the light within.

812
00:49:53,720 --> 00:49:55,080
You.
Don't even use any of these

813
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,440
words, like just come and have
the experience honestly, like

814
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,240
that, that, you know, even
saying these words, a lot of

815
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:03,120
people just go into believing
them and it's like, oh, if I do

816
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,480
this, it will happen.
And then like the ego just takes

817
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,840
over that matter.
Oh, I'm awakening my light, but

818
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:11,120
actually I'm not doing anything.
Like they're like actually

819
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,600
awakening the light is very
different than just talking

820
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:17,040
about it or thinking about it.
And I'm telling you as someone

821
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:19,560
who has come from a lot of
trauma, who's come from deep

822
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:24,320
depression, like I had a
three-year period where I was so

823
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:28,160
depressed, I was suicidal.
I was like, I just could not get

824
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:29,960
out of bed.
I used to just be sitting and

825
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:34,000
watching TV for 18 hours a day.
Like that was my life for a long

826
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:35,720
period of time.
So what?

827
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,720
What part of your life while
you're in Seattle working after

828
00:50:39,720 --> 00:50:42,200
that?
Yeah, it's so after actually

829
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,640
during my training.
So the only thing that you're.

830
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,040
Yeah, the only thing that would
Get Me Out of bed would be going

831
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,240
and facilitating a retreat
because that would bring some

832
00:50:51,240 --> 00:50:53,840
light into my life.
But the moment that would get

833
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:57,160
over, it was like I would just
be back in the same place.

834
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,080
And it wasn't the same place
like, you know, it was.

835
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,680
I had to go through a deep
valley and there was movement

836
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,160
happening.
But again, like I that was my

837
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,440
journey and I need to learn a
lot from that.

838
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:13,280
And what I learned from that is
that it doesn't mean have to go

839
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,320
on that long.
Things can shift faster.

840
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,120
Yeah, I, but I, I, I didn't need
to go through that.

841
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:22,360
But I don't want to make that as
an example that everyone has to

842
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:23,760
go through that if they are.
Right.

843
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,440
Yeah, that makes sense.
But it's really an interesting

844
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:31,480
perspective that I hadn't been
exposed to or thought about that

845
00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:38,800
getting to a a point, whatever
you want to call it, of light.

846
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,440
Actually all the other stuff
gets solved because you've

847
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:48,280
solved a bigger problem, right?
Yeah, I didn't put it very well,

848
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,200
but.
No, I mean that that's exactly

849
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:53,120
it.
So I, I want to share two things

850
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:56,920
here.
You know, 1 is that, so I'll,

851
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:58,360
I'll get to that later.
What you said.

852
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,760
So basically it's, you know,
Einstein coming back to what

853
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:04,040
Einstein said, it's that there
are higher levels of

854
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,720
consciousness where reality self
harmonize.

855
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,400
And you know, there's this very
beautiful thing called the map

856
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,560
of consciousness.
Anyone can go and look it up on

857
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:16,560
the Internet and it was created
by a researcher done very

858
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:20,480
scientifically.
It was David Hawkins who did it

859
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:22,720
or Richard.
No, it's David Hawkins.

860
00:52:22,720 --> 00:52:27,160
So, so he created this map of
consciousness where basically he

861
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,360
talks about lower consciousness
where people are stuck in the

862
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:33,200
dark, heavy emotions.
Then there is the middle, which

863
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,480
is the intellect.
It's reason, it's apathy, it's

864
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,400
neutrality, all of that way
you're not feeling a heavy

865
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:41,960
emotion, but you're being very
rational and intelligent.

866
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:46,400
And reason is the highest level
of the middle.

867
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:51,400
But as a as, as a culture, we
have defined that as the peak.

868
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,880
Reason is the peak.
But in his research with many,

869
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,160
many, many people, the highest
levels of consciousness can

870
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:03,520
actually come beyond reason,
beyond the typical rational

871
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,440
reason.
And the, the first of those

872
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:11,280
levels is love and not the
typical love like romance or

873
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:12,880
something, but like love
consciousness.

874
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:14,560
So it's, I don't want to go too
deep into that.

875
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,080
People can read about it.
Then comes joy.

876
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,720
And again, it's not just being
happy because something is going

877
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:23,520
well in your life, but it's true
joy, which is unconditional.

878
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:26,040
So it's unconditional love,
unconditional joy.

879
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:31,880
And then comes peace.
And peace, I believe in my

880
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:35,640
experience is the self
harmonizing level of

881
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:37,880
consciousness.
So when you are in peace or you

882
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:41,600
are around someone in peace.
So like I used to be someone who

883
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:43,360
had no peace at all.
It was the thing I was seeking

884
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:45,960
the most.
But today I have been told by

885
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:47,880
many people I've become their
beacon of peace.

886
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,920
Like they've just like they come
into my field and I just feel

887
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:55,280
peaceful and even someone as
normal as my builder.

888
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:57,640
So, you know, this house is new.
The guy who was building this

889
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:02,280
house, he's a very normal
Brazilian guy, like has nothing

890
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,160
to do with consciousness.
But he came and you know, he

891
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:08,080
told me that there's just
something like I just like

892
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,760
working for you.
I would even do it for free.

893
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:14,000
I would take a loss just to work
with you because I feel good

894
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:16,840
when I'm in your breath.
Someone like that can can feel

895
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:18,520
it.
And I'm like, you know, it's not

896
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:20,760
just about me.
There's so many beacons of peace

897
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:24,600
and love and joy.
But when you're in that energy,

898
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,080
when you're in that level of
consciousness, that is where

899
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:32,120
reality starts self harmonizing.
Love, I believe is consciousness

900
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,480
where healing takes place.
Joy is a consciousness where

901
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,200
your spirit starts awakening to
your mission piece is where

902
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:39,640
everything actually starts
falling in place like a

903
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:44,200
perfection.
So and then there's stuff beyond

904
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:50,000
that too.
So yeah, it's it's about the

905
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:51,800
level of consciousness that
you're in.

906
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,920
If you're in reason, you're
stuck thinking about problems.

907
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:59,040
Reasoning is used to solve
problems, so you'll only look at

908
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:00,680
reality through the lens of
problems.

909
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:02,960
These are all the problems that
need to be fixed.

910
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:05,040
I need to use my intelligence to
fix it.

911
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:08,000
I need to fix it.
I, I I, it's all I focus.

912
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,960
The moment you come into Lovejoy
and Peace, you're able to hold

913
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,680
consciousness where reality
starts self healing.

914
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:18,680
And it's not.
Again, it's not something people

915
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:21,680
talk about a lot, but I can only
say it from experience.

916
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:26,000
Not just myself, but so many
people healing in my presence

917
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,320
and I'm not the only one.
I'm a very small, you know, my

918
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:31,800
field is very small right now.
Like I'm working on growing it

919
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:33,560
bigger and bigger.
But there are people who have

920
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:35,840
massive fields like Eckhart
Tolle, like he's, he's a

921
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:40,080
beautiful example of someone who
holds consciousness and he does

922
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:42,360
talk, but you know, it's, it's
what's happening in his field.

923
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,400
Like people just go there and
they feel things are improving.

924
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,440
Sadhguru, there's so many
teachers out there for doing it

925
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:53,680
for millions of people.
So would you liken that to what

926
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:59,160
is often inexplicable when you
walk into a room and you meet

927
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:04,680
somebody and if you, if your
radar is built the muscle at

928
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:08,240
all, you say, well, I don't want
to talk to that person anymore.

929
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,560
You talk to somebody else and
you feel good energy from them.

930
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:15,600
It's unmistakable, right?
If it if you're at all, you

931
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:19,160
know, paying attention.
You can be very rational, but if

932
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,160
you have any sensitivity, if you
have any intuition, which a lot

933
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:24,960
of entrepreneurs do have, and
they feel it, they know who are

934
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:26,480
the right people.
They know who are the wrong

935
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:28,760
people.
Like the, the, the, the best

936
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,440
entrepreneurs know how to pick
the right people.

937
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:31,880
They know how to drop the wrong
people.

938
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:35,400
They may not put it in these
terms, but they know how to

939
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:38,920
feel.
You know, I think Joseph

940
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:43,960
Campbell put it really well, is
that the the invisible hand is

941
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:47,600
the your intuition, right?
So pay attention to it, right?

942
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,000
And the more you pay attention
to it, the better it gets, that

943
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,400
sort of thing.
And a lot of people would say

944
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,480
what we're talking about is
like, woo woo TO like, Oh, yeah,

945
00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:02,160
what are you guys talking about?
You know, I, I want to say that

946
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:07,320
my mission is, is focused on
helping skeptics and cynics to

947
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:08,880
some degree.
Like I don't want to go into the

948
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:11,360
two cynical who have no
intention to awaken, but at

949
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:13,520
least skeptics who want
something.

950
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,320
But they don't want to go into
the path of belief.

951
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:18,000
They don't want to go into the
path of normal spiritual

952
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,760
practices like rituals or
chanting or all of that.

953
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:24,240
Like if you just want to
experience higher conscious, but

954
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:27,240
you and you have some openness
for it, you can keep a

955
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:29,040
skepticism.
Like that's the people I'm

956
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:33,320
focusing on.
So you know, there is some talk

957
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,000
of woo Hoo, maybe, but it
doesn't matter what I'm saying.

958
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:37,280
Like come and have the
experience.

959
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:40,800
You'll see how real it is.
Fair, Sir, I was not the person

960
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:42,800
who was saying all of these
things 11 years ago, right?

961
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,440
Like, I was not using this
language at all.

962
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:48,800
For me, intelligence was the
most important thing.

963
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,480
I was super like, I consider
myself, you know, a genius

964
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,400
programmer that I got all of the
validation from my company.

965
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:56,120
I got my promotions and all of
that.

966
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:59,360
So like, that was the, the the
thing for me is intelligence.

967
00:57:59,360 --> 00:57:59,840
Yeah.
But.

968
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,400
And there's so much more to life
beyond that.

969
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:05,960
And.
So, So what?

970
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:09,960
Why is it that you want to focus
on the skeptics?

971
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:16,000
Because I, I, I, I get them and,
and I speak the language that

972
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,600
can also relate to them.
Like I, although, you know, we

973
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:22,400
went into some vote of this on
this in this conversation, but I

974
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:26,080
still feel like someone who is
holding their rationality and

975
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:28,800
curiosity will want to
experience it and see if it's

976
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:30,160
true.
Like, I'm not saying believe me,

977
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:34,720
I'm saying come experience it.
And I've seen that a lot of

978
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:39,160
skeptics do respond to me like
they, they, they, even if they,

979
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:45,240
you know, I'm talking over, they
kind of feel like I can trust

980
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,560
him that he's not going to try
and convince me about something.

981
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:49,800
It's not my intention.
I don't want to convince you.

982
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:52,960
I want you to await him.
I want you to experience higher

983
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:56,000
consciousness because it will
free you from a lot of the

984
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:57,840
darkness and the suffering that
you're experiencing.

985
00:58:57,840 --> 00:58:59,680
Like I just know that from my
experience.

986
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:04,400
And you're on that note, I want
to experience, I want to share

987
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:07,720
what actually awakened me from
my three-year depression.

988
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:12,240
It was again, believable.
So I went through this for three

989
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:14,080
years.
And the reason my depression was

990
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:18,240
getting worse is like I said,
you know, the, the, the, the my

991
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:21,080
teacher and the work that we
were doing was all focusing on

992
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:23,600
healing and trauma.
So like for those three years, I

993
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:26,120
just kept diving deeper and
deeper into my traumas and what

994
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:29,720
is wrong and you know, then
looking at the world and like

995
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,120
apocalypse is coming and like I
was actually in a very deeply

996
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:37,520
apocalyptic mind state to the
point I started holding stuff

997
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:40,040
and like I was ready.
I was ready for World War three

998
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:41,120
to begin begin.
It was.

999
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,920
And I know that that's happening
even today for a lot of people,

1000
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:49,160
but I, I don't believe it's
going to happen like that.

1001
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:51,000
That's the level I have come to
now.

1002
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:54,520
But I was so bought into it and
that was happening like 7-8

1003
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:56,600
years ago.
I was that was going to happen.

1004
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:59,280
I was so sure about.
So, you know, obviously that

1005
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:00,800
becomes more and more
depressing.

1006
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:11,120
And one morning I woke up, I
opened the door to my house, to

1007
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:16,760
my house and I saw the sunrise
and it's I felt my depression

1008
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:19,200
lift.
I was just like, I can see the

1009
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:22,160
sun rising now.
And that was it.

1010
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:25,040
Like my light awakened again,
like my, it was, it was just

1011
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:26,520
grace.
Like there's no other way to

1012
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:29,280
explain it.
Who heals depression by watching

1013
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,360
one son, right?
Like what does, how do you

1014
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:35,920
explain the logic of that?
But from that day, I have not

1015
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:37,800
entered into that kind of
depression.

1016
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:40,600
And you know, there was, there
was maybe some residual things

1017
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:43,800
coming up in the following
months, but it was just a

1018
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:46,800
clearing out at that point.
Like after that point, I've just

1019
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:50,600
been optimistic to the point
that I've again, like I've

1020
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:54,800
become a beacon for people to to
be and become optimistic.

1021
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:59,280
I could see how a sunrise would
snap you out of it because it's

1022
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:01,560
miraculous, right?
I hope you see that.

1023
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:05,800
Say, wait a minute, I'm here,
I'm alive, I'm breathing, the

1024
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:09,200
sun's shining.
I have food to eat.

1025
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:11,720
There's people in my life that I
love.

1026
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:14,480
Holy shit, what?
Well, I have no reason to be

1027
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:17,120
depressed, right?
And I know you could, but I know

1028
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:21,600
people when they're depressed,
like for, for them to be hearing

1029
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:23,880
this and be like, yeah, I can
look at a sunrise and nothing

1030
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,200
happens.
I mean, I didn't look at so many

1031
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:28,640
sunrises, right?
In those three years, I did

1032
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:30,800
witness many sunrise.
And they did nothing to me.

1033
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:34,120
I, I was, I was again, I was
living in the jungle, surrounded

1034
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:38,680
by beauty, surrounded by life.
It did nothing to me for three

1035
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:42,160
years, but what happened on that
one morning, I have no clue.

1036
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:46,160
But that's The thing is how can
we facilitate grace?

1037
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:49,920
How can we get people into a
into a state a level of

1038
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:52,040
consciousness like grace enters
their life?

1039
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:56,720
Like that's my work primarily
now is, is I don't want to try

1040
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:59,240
and convince you of something.
I want to get you into the state

1041
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:04,280
where Grace takes hold.
Yeah, I think it's noble work.

1042
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:08,400
Can we talk a little bit before
we wrap it up about the

1043
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:13,240
medicine, the, the plant?
Thank you for helping me call it

1044
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:17,240
the right thing.
So it's not really that simple.

1045
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:21,120
Like it's why it's really
important to have not only

1046
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:24,240
somebody that's a good
facilitator while you're

1047
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:27,920
experiencing ayahuasca, but
someone who can cook up the

1048
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,800
medicine the right way.
I don't mean to be crude about

1049
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:32,240
it, right?
Yeah.

1050
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:34,560
I mean, it's, it's quite an
intensive process.

1051
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:39,280
It it, it takes about 24 hours
if you're if you're preparing a

1052
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:42,080
big batch and it takes about 24
hours just to cook the brew

1053
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:43,880
itself.
And like, you know, there's days

1054
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:47,080
of preparation before that to
cut everything.

1055
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:51,560
It's very physically intensive.
So the preparation, yeah, that's

1056
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:55,160
one thing.
And, you know, especially when

1057
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:57,680
it's being done illegally and
it's being transported

1058
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:00,040
illegally, a lot of like,
because you cannot take big

1059
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:04,160
quantities, a lot of people then
go and dilute it and maybe even

1060
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:06,520
mix it with other stuff to make
it stronger.

1061
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:09,440
And you'll never know what
you're drinking.

1062
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:11,680
Oh, yeah, it happens a lot, a
lot.

1063
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:14,680
So you don't even know if you're
drinking, you know, the, the,

1064
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:18,360
the pure Iowasca brew or it's
been mixed with something or

1065
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:21,120
it's been diluted and then you
end up having no experience or

1066
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:23,680
you have a very light experience
and you think that's ayahasca.

1067
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:31,360
But if you have real the, the
well prepared Ayahasca, it is so

1068
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:33,840
strong.
It's of course, everyone has

1069
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:36,040
their dose and you know, but
some people they just need more.

1070
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:38,640
But again, with the right
facilitator, they know how to

1071
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:41,200
find your dose.
They know how to not give you

1072
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:44,080
too much, not give you too less.
Make sure that you have a great

1073
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:49,080
experience.
So there is, I, I would say like

1074
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:53,040
you, the most important thing
for someone is that they need to

1075
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:56,120
interview the facilitator and
ask them the right question.

1076
01:03:56,400 --> 01:04:01,200
One would be what's in your
group, you know, has it been

1077
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:02,560
diluted?
Has it been mixed with

1078
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:06,520
something?
And also like, you know, there's

1079
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:08,440
so many other questions like
what, like what's your outlook

1080
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:10,320
on the world?
You know, what does healing mean

1081
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:11,280
to you?
If you're talking about healing,

1082
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:14,360
what does healing mean to you?
What is higher consciousness?

1083
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:17,920
What's the divine like?
All because all of that is what

1084
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:19,840
you're going to be picking up in
the ceremony.

1085
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:22,840
Like if you need help, how are
they going to help you?

1086
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:24,040
What are they going to say to
you?

1087
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:27,120
Are they trauma informed?
Because you know, sometimes

1088
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:30,360
traumas can awaken in ayahuasca,
but they can be trauma informed

1089
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:34,120
and then taking you deeper into
healing or they can be trauma

1090
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:37,160
informed and they can be
awakening your soul, right?

1091
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:40,600
Or I don't feel like you need to
ask question, you need to feel

1092
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:43,320
right that this is the right
facilitator for you, that

1093
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:45,960
they're giving you real pure
ayahuasca.

1094
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:50,760
So I don't know if that answers
your question or.

1095
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:57,720
Yeah, No, no, I think it's
because there's a, there's a, a

1096
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:02,160
gap between I'm going to do
Ayahuasca and what it really is

1097
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:05,240
and the variety of ways you can
experience it.

1098
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:08,480
Like you've just shared with us.
Like it could be adulterated, it

1099
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:12,040
could be too weak, it could be
all kinds of things, right.

1100
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:15,400
So.
And then there's a setting, you

1101
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:18,480
know, so I, like I said, you
know, I had a few people who

1102
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:22,440
drank in basements in New York
or who drank just in someone's

1103
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:25,280
house because they managed to
find iOS go online.

1104
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:30,360
And one of the things with
illegality, especially like I

1105
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:34,440
heard several people share about
such an experience where they're

1106
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:37,560
afraid that the cops are going
to bust in order, you know, the

1107
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:39,400
FBI is going to come and arrest
them.

1108
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:44,040
And ayahuasca is an amplifier.
So if you are afraid it's going

1109
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:48,880
to take your fuel 1000 times
stronger during this, a lot like

1110
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:51,960
I've heard of a lot of people
who become super paranoid during

1111
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:54,720
the experience.
I've even heard of ceremonies

1112
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:56,840
which are even happening in
South America where, you know,

1113
01:05:56,840 --> 01:06:01,520
they, they don't really hold the
ceremony and people are allowed

1114
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:04,320
to just wander off and like, you
know, some of them get lost in

1115
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:06,840
the jungle.
Some of them are around fire

1116
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:09,080
pits and they're like, they're
dancing around the fire they can

1117
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:10,960
fall in.
Like all kinds of things can

1118
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:14,040
happen.
So like, there's a lot to be

1119
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:17,320
aware of and speaking to someone
who's experienced.

1120
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:20,480
So I am very open to speaking to
people even if you don't want to

1121
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:22,560
have an experience with me, but
you know, you just want

1122
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:25,440
guidance.
You want something about finding

1123
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:27,600
the right place or you want a
second opinion about something

1124
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:29,800
that I'm very open to just
speaking to people.

1125
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:33,160
So someone watches this and you
just want to reach out to me and

1126
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:35,280
ask questions.
I'm very open to it.

1127
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:37,840
Of course, if you don't have an
experience with me, ask me

1128
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:39,880
questions too, right?
Like I've shared some stuff

1129
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:42,680
here, but you may have deeper
questions, you have other

1130
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:47,320
questions.
So I would say you're dealing

1131
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:52,840
with something very powerful.
Be be aware of that.

1132
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:55,240
Ask questions.
There's no shame in asking

1133
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:57,240
questions, even if you think
that they're stupid or silly.

1134
01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:00,400
Questions like you need to get
the right information.

1135
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:03,520
You need to really feel safe.
It's very important.

1136
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,280
If you feel afraid, it's going
to get amplified.

1137
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:08,320
If you don't trust the
facilitator, you will get

1138
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:10,720
paranoid over the facilitator in
the middle of the experience.

1139
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:14,480
How can they help you then?
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

1140
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:16,520
Trust.
Yeah.

1141
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:21,520
How did you discover?
Was it an accident or on

1142
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:24,240
purpose?
You're being trained as an

1143
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:27,920
apprentice.
Did the person that you decided

1144
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:31,520
to get trained as it?
Was it always the same person?

1145
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:35,480
Has it changed over time?
How did you discern the right

1146
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:40,040
person to train you?
I mean, it was just great

1147
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:42,960
because like I said, you know,
in that second experience, I was

1148
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:45,480
shown my future and it happened
to be at the very center where I

1149
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:50,360
was drinking the ayahuasca.
And I think, you know, I, I

1150
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:54,800
personally have deviated from
the teaching of that center and

1151
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:57,880
the, the teacher, like I said,
because you know, of the focus

1152
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:01,240
on healing still has helped
people and it helped me a lot.

1153
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:04,120
But I would say my primary
teacher was ayahuasca.

1154
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:09,400
And apart from the, the teacher
I was working with, I have not

1155
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:13,880
had any other human teacher is
primarily been Ayahuasca has

1156
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:16,560
been guiding the way for me.
Like even throughout those eight

1157
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:19,399
years, I would say I mostly
learn from ayahuasca.

1158
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:24,359
She was helping me a lot to, you
know, hold space for me or teach

1159
01:08:24,359 --> 01:08:26,520
me whatever she knows and her
perspective.

1160
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:30,920
And while I took some of that on
for some time, I would say a lot

1161
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:35,240
of it I have shared and I've
just mostly retained what I was,

1162
01:08:35,359 --> 01:08:36,479
has taught me and given.
Me.

1163
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:39,720
Yeah.
Super helpful, fascinating.

1164
01:08:41,359 --> 01:08:42,880
Yeah.
I'm really glad we did this.

1165
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:46,439
And I think if it's OK with you
in a couple months we'll do it

1166
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:52,359
again because there's A and I
have 1000 more questions and

1167
01:08:52,359 --> 01:08:54,920
it's curiosity.
It's not anything other than

1168
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:56,960
that.
And of course I've had some

1169
01:08:56,960 --> 01:09:01,160
plant based experiences.
So I have, you know, a basis of

1170
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:02,920
understanding on some of this
stuff.

1171
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:09,200
So it's super fascinating.
Would it be OK if when I sent

1172
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:12,880
this out to everybody that we
shared contact information for

1173
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:15,080
you or like a link?
Yeah.

1174
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:17,680
Like I said, you know, I want
people to reach out to me.

1175
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:21,600
So I am there on LinkedIn
primarily that's the the social

1176
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:23,160
media website that I use the
most.

1177
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:25,960
I'm also there on other
platforms like Instagram, but

1178
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:28,479
mainly like if you want to
communicate with me, it's either

1179
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:31,479
LinkedIn or my website
whichistheinfinite0.com.

1180
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:34,240
And you know, maybe we could go
into the story of why the

1181
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:36,520
infinite zero, why my name is
Theo now instead of.

1182
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:39,520
Actually, I was going to ask you
that question because I know at

1183
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:46,640
least a dozen people who I know
kind of well and not so well,

1184
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:50,720
who have had experiences and
awakening, let's just call it,

1185
01:09:51,279 --> 01:09:55,520
and you immediately know and
half of them have changed their

1186
01:09:55,520 --> 01:09:57,680
first name.
So I.

1187
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:02,600
Yeah.
And it's fascinating.

1188
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:09,320
But yeah, let's do that another
time if that's OK with you,

1189
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:11,640
'cause I wanted a question,
yeah.

1190
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:15,840
Yeah.
So, yeah, so my website is

1191
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:19,160
there, which also has my e-mail.
My LinkedIn is that you can

1192
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:21,440
probably also drop it into the
description.

1193
01:10:21,440 --> 01:10:22,080
So it's.
Easier.

1194
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:25,040
Totally.
The infinite0.com or if you

1195
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:27,920
search for TO Rohan even on
LinkedIn on Google you will find

1196
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:31,720
that's TO with a 0.
Yeah, with the TO, with the

1197
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:32,680
zero, I love it.
Yeah.

1198
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:36,640
So thank you for doing this.
Really, really appreciate it.

1199
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:40,000
It's, it's been wonderful.
It's a powerful conversation.

1200
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:42,360
I hope it reaches as many people
as possible.

1201
01:10:42,440 --> 01:10:44,800
I'm going to be sharing it
because I just feel like there's

1202
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:49,160
a lot of power in the and yeah,
it's, it's my pleasure to have

1203
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:51,400
this conversation with you, to
have more conversation with you,

1204
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:54,240
and to have conversation with
people who see this and are

1205
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:56,920
inspired to reach out.
Yeah, if it's OK with you, I'd

1206
01:10:56,920 --> 01:11:00,960
love to do this again shortly.
Actually, yeah.

1207
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:03,200
Thank you everybody for being
here.

1208
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:05,080
Thank you, Teo.
Thank you.