Unlocking Potential: A Conversation with Cate Wilkes.

0:00 Hello, welcome everybody to another episode of Arthur's Roundtable. Super grateful for people listening in and thank you for your recommendations for podcast guests and also participating and sharing the podcast with others. We really, really appreciate it. And today I'm super happy to have Kate Wilkes with us and talk about her journey. And I hope you enjoy it. I'm sure you will. So Kate, please tell us a little bit about you in the beginning and your journey. Love to hear about it. Thank you, Arthur. First of all, thank you so much for having me here. What an honor and a pleasure to spend time with you. I own it. You know, it's interesting, we were just talking about New York. So I grew up in New York. I went to College in Virginia. Right out of college, I went into the mortgage business and really spent the majority of my career in mortgage banking.

0:47 Weathering the credit crisis. I'm sure you know, most people remember that weathering the credit crisis and then really finding a new aspect of who I was and that was someone who wanted to go in and make life better for people. I ended up in consulting during the credit crisis, moved over into the consulting realm, first as an independent and then with KPMG and their credit risk and mortgage advisory practice, which was really, really enlightening. Working with top ten banks in the US from the standpoint of how do we help them integrate all of this regulatory change that was coming through. You know, as you know, when there's any regulation in the banking industry, it affects 3 areas, people, process and technology.

1:30 And so with KPMGI, got to do that work. It was a lot of fun, a lot of travel and a lot of late nights, but I really loved it. And then from there, I was actually recruited by Fannie Mae. So Fannie Mae as an organization has gone through multiple transformations even in the last decade, but this transformation was inside Colonel. And so I was contacted by a recruiter and they said, look, we know you have industry experience, we know you have consulting experience, and we'd love for you to come and join the team. So I did not really knowing what I was getting into what. Was that like, I mean, it's, it's kind of corporate, but kind of government, right? So it's got to be a little different than what you're experiencing at KPMG, right?

2:16 Absolutely. You know, it's Fannie Mae is still a quasi government organization. They're still in receivership or conservatorship, excuse me, working with the components of the transformation. So McKenzie had been there before I entered the picture and created a beautiful internal target operating model. And so the implementation of that model, trying to work through the complexity of the organization, very matrixed organization and definitely, you know, on an org chart chart, not an easy simple diagram, but then also an organization that was regulated or is regulated by the Federal Housing Finance Administration. So the FHFA was involved in everything, every aspect of what we did.

3:03 So it did create complexities for me. I will be very honest with you, Arthur. You know, at my level, the VP level, I didn't have a lot of direct contact in those conversations. My mission was really around growing and developing leaders, and that's what I realized. Human development role. Not officially, but what I realized was that when I took, I took on three different teams and when I entered that organization, it was really it was more the first month or even 2 months was around creating awareness for me around where the opportunities were, where were people really struggling to hit the numbers. And so in my role, I had everything from account management all the way through the value chain of a mortgage to servicing sale re OS working with the servicing division. But the one thing that I knew I could impact, so I had the same product, the same pricing, pretty much the same market execution as every other team.

4:04 But what I realized was if I just worked with the individuals on the team, if I just help them to see the potential, if I help them to identify opportunity, if I help them have different conversations with our customers that we could uncover areas where, number one, they didn't even see the opportunity, but #2 we could capitalize on it and lead the conversation. And so that's what I did. I mean, when I got there, we were doing around 4 billion. The next year we went to 8 billion, and then then 12 billion eleven months later in production. And it was all because of developing people. So one would think that that would be naturally what you'd do.

4:46 What you suggested was your edge was something you would think people would do. I mean, I'm not trying to be as smart as I'm just saying, but the other divisions just sit behind their door and not talking to the people. You know, if it was as much that Arthur as it was Fannie Mae, when I when I started there, it was very interesting because I went in to the organization at a higher level. There were people that had been there for 25 years that were looking to be at the officer level that we're not there. But what happens, I think what happens when an individual is that a company for that amount of time, like straight without any other experience, What happens is you myopic.

5:28 This is my opinion. I think you get myopic you, you begin to only think within the four walls of what you're doing without generating ideas. You know, I was married to a military officer. We moved a lot over the course of my career and what and so I had different jobs, but what that gave me was perspective. It gave me insight. It helped me to adapt to different markets. I learned that when I worked in the southern states, for example, Texas, Alabama, Georgia, that the sales conversation was very different. It was about understanding who they are and what their family was about and what they did on the weekend. Whereas in the Northern tier, like up in New York, it's like boom.

6:10 You get right to the point, you get to the conversation and they're out the door. Let's do a trade or not, right? Yeah. So it's kind of like visiting foreign countries. If you haven't, you don't have that you, you just can make some make up some opinion about what it's like to be in the US versus somewhere else or somewhere else versus the US, for example. But unless you've been there, you really don't know, right? You really don't know that's that's very honestly, that's a very insightful comment. And and I'll tell you why. What that same thought, that same train of thought can be true in any aspect of our lives. We don't sit in the seat of someone else. This is why I love the idea of intellectual curiosity.

6:54 I love the idea of personal growth and development. Because if I see something in you, Arthur, that I really like about you, that I admire about you, the only way that I can see that is if it's in me. I just haven't activated it. So even yeah, yeah, with the the work that I'll be doing with Spark Brilliance. So Spark Brilliance is leadership activation organization. They don't do leadership programs or leadership training. They actually teach the leaders in an organization how to activate not only their potential, but the potential of the people that that work under them, that report to them. And I'm excited to do some coaching with them and some facilitation because this is exactly what I think will transform organizations. Not only the organization itself, but the experience that people have at work.

7:42 And how much time do you spend at work? I mean, at least. All of it, yeah. Yeah, so. It's, I've always been, those are hyperbolic worlds awards. I've often been in a position where the only choice was to run through the wall and get something done. And so it was about execution and results. And so I'm awful. And, and I admit I've only been in one corporate environment in my career. And it was just fascinating because it was kind of a lark. But there is a lot of talk about executive development and what you're Speaking of.

8:25 I'll admit that I've often said, well, wait a minute, we just you, you know what your contract says, know what your incentives are, know what results you're trying to get, Just go do it. And so I know there's a lot more to it. And I lived in a bubble for a long time, being in New York and so forth. But it's fascinating to me to hear because I think that there's a lot to be said for personal development because people, you're no good to anybody else unless you take care of yourself first, right? Yeah. That's what that's what I think you're you're trying to do. Yeah, it's, you know, when I worked with Bob Proctor, so I love fanning me at the end of of 2018 decided to step totally away from corporate for another a number of reasons. First and foremost, my older brother passed away. That was difficult.

9:10 He was my best friend and then shortly thereafter my parents, my dad, and then three months later my mom. So very, very a lot of. Experiences run after another, yeah. Yeah, so I, you know, I decided to step away just to kind of breathe, to exhale. 2019 is when I met Bob Proctor. And when I met Bob Proctor, I said to, I said I'm going to hire you. I want you to work with me. I want you to teach me everything that you know. I ended up getting certified in his work and then invited into his inner circle. So I became a success advisor for Bob. We were doing a global expansion, but it was all centered around, yes, it was a strategy, an organizational strategy, but it was dependent on #1 each of us growing individually and then growing together as a team.

10:02 And Bob was ahead of that. He was just a beautiful leader that called out, you know, we were talking about Seeds of Greatness, the book. He called out Seeds of Greatness with ease. It was part of who he was. And I thought to myself, I want to be part. I want to be like that because I want when I am in the presence of anybody, whether it's personally or professionally, I want to leave them inspired. I want them to know that I see them, I see the potential in them and I see the opportunities that are available to them. That's really. A noble, noble point of view. Would you mind? Before you go out and don't lose that thought, share with the group what Bob Proctor does. Bob Proctor, they would say, arguably was one of the foremost authorities on human potential and success. So Bob got his start, I would say in the 1960s. He was given a book, Think and Grow Rich, by one of his close friends, Napoleon Hill.

10:58 Napoleon Hill was thinking and Bob read that book every day for 61 years. Every single day. Wow. And so he the way that Bob thought, the way that he acted, the way he operated his life was based on the principles in thinking grow rich. And he would say to me so many times I would say, but Bob, what about this? What about this? And he would look at me and he would say your only problem is you, and your only solution is you. Meaning to say that we create our own issues by the way that we think. You know, thought is the first 'cause. And so he also taught me a lot about universal law and the law of cause and effect is known to be the law of laws. And the first 'cause is always the way that we think about something.

11:44 Yeah. So the last page of that book says if it's going to be, it's up to me, right? That was the whole thing. Exactly. So Bob built, he actually built several businesses around the success principles. And then I want to say it was long, about 2006, Sandy Gallagher joined him. Sandy was an attorney on Wall Street, one of the top MA attorneys on Wall Street. She went to one of his seminars. And the way that she puts us as list, I wish I could just unzip my head. You could pour it all in. We could zip it back up. And if only it was that easy, right? But she began to work with him. So Bob was really the creative genius. He was a master at communicating the material and Sandy was the financial genius running and operating the firm.

12:29 So most people know Tony Robbins compare. I'm not asking you to do anything other than just Give your opinion is can you make a comparison between Proctor and Tony Robbins? That is a great question. You know what, Arthur? I would say this because Tony actually started his career reading Thinking Grow Rich and he says that. I mean, that was one of the very first books he started. I would say that between Tony and Bob, they just expressed the principles differently. Tony is all about House of emotion and impact and living up to your full potential. Bob was like that too.

13:11 He just taught it in a different way. Bob really taught from the way that the mind works. When you think about the mind, the conscious mind, the subconscious mind, he taught really this flow, this idea that we live on three planes of existence at the same time simultaneously. We live on the spiritual plane. So when you think about, you have a thought or you have an idea, you get emotionally involved with that idea. So that's the intellect. So from the spirit to the intellect. And then the physical is like when you started your company, you had this idea, you got emotionally involved with it, you started taking action, and then the actions created a certain result. I think where people get tripped up, and Tony does a good job with this as well, is that we get involved, emotionally involved with results that we don't want.

13:56 So for example, if I try something for the first time and I don't get the result I want, it's very common for the human condition to go right to the conversation that says maybe I'm not cut out for this, or founders go through this a lot. Maybe this isn't right, or maybe I'm not good enough, or maybe I don't have the right education. Or maybe, maybe, maybe we start questioning and doubting ourselves rather than saying, OK, that didn't work. What can I do differently? So it's fascinating. I super appreciate this conversation that would you argue that when you try something and it doesn't work, people who tend to be successful say, OK, now I need to adjust. It's not that I'm no good.

14:41 It's not that the idea might not be you have to adjust, right? OK, so that didn't work. How about if I change this, this and this and then try it again like AB testing to oversimplify it, right? Yeah, absolutely. So here's something when if I say I want to do something, I get involved with that idea. I get excited about it. Napoleon Hill calls it a burning desire like that first, you know, that's the first principle of success, is you have to have a burning desire to create something. And so I get emotionally involved. I start taking action, maybe gathering resources, whether it's funding or people, you know, talent. So I get to a place where I'm ready to go. I take action and then, oh, something doesn't work out right. Well, the five senses, I believe that our five senses were really designed to help us make meaning out of the physical world. You can't use your 5 senses in the spiritual realm or the intellect, one for one.

15:36 So if I say OK, I got this particular result so I can hear, see, smell, taste or touch the result and the result is not what I want, then I have one of two choices. I can get in harmony with what I don't want. The result I get in harmony with the result or and then get go back and get in harmony with my goal and say, what do I want to create? Where can I make an adjustment? Is it in my thinking? Because thought is the first 'cause so can I think about this a different way? And this is where your higher faculties come into play. Your perception, your will, your reason, your imagination, your intuition and your memory. Our memory can serve us in a very very positive way if we use it like.

16:17 Totally. So I missed it. It's the intellectual plane, the emotional plane. Describe the planes again. Yeah, so it just from, you know, energy moves from a higher to a lower potential. So if I'm on the spiritual plane, have you ever been in a situation where you said, wow, that dropped in out of the blue or I got this idea out of the blue and and. All the time. Like to me, it's I've just settled on that. The universe has my back. And so that's where that came from, right? That's the way I look at it. Exactly. Exactly. And this can be measured. I mean people, some people still say this is woo woo, but I can assure you this can all be measured. I mean we Carillion photography can measure the energy coming from a person. So if the energy is emitting from the human body, the energy can interact with the atmospheric energy and the ether around us.

17:06 Totally agree, it's all. Vibration, yeah. So the spiritual plane is the highest plane. It's the highest potential. Then the intellect, so you get an idea, comes into the conscious mind and then the physical, which is where, you know, you take action to create a physical result or what we know as manifestation. You know, in some circles it's always flows from a higher to a lower potential, which means that if we're getting involved with the result that we don't want and the result is on the physical plane, we're operating at the lowest level of potential. Or if the result, what you said earlier is if the result is not what we intellectually first thought it would be, you either have to adjust or get in alignment with the result. But then wouldn't you have to intake to selectually say OK I'm OK with that result?

17:56 Well, there's a couple things to it. So if I have a result that I don't want, in other words, it's not what I expected, I can look at that in a different way. It's really the power of perception. So am I perceiving my seeing everything about this result that I need to see? What part of it can I take forward? Can I dissect it? Is there somebody else I can bring in that can help me see this in a different way? This is why collaboration is so powerful because if I'm looking at something, it's like a beach ball. So a beach ball has it's one ball but has different colors. You know, if it's the striped with a different color. So I can be holding a beach ball and I can see the green side and you can say no, it's red.

18:37 Yeah, point of view. But it's the same thing. So that's, that's where we get into the higher intellectual faculties, the power perception, even intuition, you know, into a science is now talking about intuition because it's really the connection between the brain and the, I think it's the ganglionic nerve bundle in the gut, that gut feeling and then the communication through the vagus nerve. So everything is connected, everything is. You probably know this, but Joseph Campbell called the intuition the Invisible Hand and the guy that did Star Wars, whatever his name was. Oh gosh, I can't remember. His name's on the tip of my tongue.

19:17 What? What was the thing in Star Wars? It was it was the thing that the signal that you got is at a loss for the word. Anyway, the guy that did Star Wars took it from Joseph Campbell. And the invisible hand was the intuition, which was the thing that Luke Skywalker got from the universe to signal that he should be doing this right. Wow, confirmation from that's. How all that came about. And Joseph Campbell recorded the his PBS series at Skywalker Ranch to talk all about that, right? It was about a lot of things. But yeah, that's where that came from. Very powerful. Intuition is very powerful.

20:00 It can guide us to inspired action, which is how I like to use intuition when something comes to me, even if it doesn't make sense. I might feel like, wow, I have a hunch to call this person and haven't talked to them in years, but and sure enough, like that person needs a contact that I have or might have something that's a missing piece for me. So it's always the mind. The conscious mind wants to logic its way out things that sound illogical. That's a well put. I think that the intuition is the nudge, and that the more you listen to it, the better your radar is and the more likely you are to not try to rationalize it away. Just do it.

20:42 Yeah, exactly 1 of the things Bob was so good about teaching paradigms. He talked about paradigms. Paradigms being mental habits that are stored in the subconscious mind that have almost exclusive control over how we think, act and operate. And one of the areas that a paradigm really rules over is our logic. So it might sound like something like a friend calls and says, hey, you know, what have you thought about this or let's go do that. And you think to yourself, that's not logical because you're basing that solely from your experience in life up until today. So it's not logical. Compared to what?

21:24 And so I always like to in sales or something called price conditioning, too expensive compared to what you know. So really expanding the idea of when something comes to us not, and I'm not saying question or challenge, but I'm saying think about it in a more holistic way even. I mean, take founders and founders who are looking for funding. I probably get, I don't know, 3 or 4 decks a week from people that I don't know, I don't know anything about them. I don't know what they're trying to accomplish. I don't know what space they're trying to play in, what they want, how they want to serve in the world. To me, if I'm going to connect somebody to my network, I kind of know who they are.

22:09 I want to know what do they want to accomplish? Why are they so in love with that idea? Not in a way like they have to sell me, but I want to see the passion. I want to see the desire in that to create this and how it's going to play out in the world, how it's going to make life better for people. And I think it really starts when we want to make life better for other people. We have to start inside of us. No doubt. There's a friend of mine in New York, really good guy, wildly successful. He started a company that failed because it was at the wrong time. But it was a version of LinkedIn that was in the throes of when LinkedIn was catching on. And his tagline was, it's not who you know, it's what you know about who you know, right? That's what matters.

22:56 I mean, you know, in one of my businesses, as you know, we get 200 decks a month, right? And people now we ask for them, meaning we encourage people to send them to us. And we don't say don't spend them. We don't because that's part of the business model. Right. Until we have a conversation with somebody, we don't know whether it's a fit. Like it's impossible, right? We don't. And I think equally as important, OK, if I'm, if I'm a founder and I have an idea and I want to bring that idea to life and I'm looking to align, collaborate. You know, alignment is such a big word on LinkedIn, but alignment really starts within, it starts within us.

23:39 And is this part of who I am? And why is it part of who I am? So asking ourselves the why questions first go deeper. When I'm working with a client, I always say, you know, I want you to listen and then I want you to listen again. I want you to listen at a deeper level because there's more. There's always more. There's an author whose work I love to read, Ernest Holmes, and he talks about these ever increasing cycles of growth like there's always another level. Not from the standpoint of I'm not good enough where I am right now or this isn't good enough, but from the standpoint of OK, here, here I am. Here's the benchmark.

24:20 Then the question is, how much better can it be? How much better, how much greater can I serve? In what ways can I serve my sphere of influence in greater ways? How can I be a better person? Where's the next level of growth for me? So it's really starts with asking good questions, but when we want something on the outside and that's not necessarily coming as fast as we want it to, the first place I look, at least for me, when I'm doing something, the first place I look is what what has to shift in me. Where's, where's the blind spot? I always work with a coach and I always will until I take my last breath because I feel like if I'm in, yeah, if I'm in a circle of thought, then I need somebody to intercept that thought to change the trajectory of what I'm doing and how I'm thinking about what I'm doing.

25:10 Swirl out. Yeah. Do you I? I get miffed regularly when I don't let it bother me. It's sort of entertainment now that I have endless amounts of LinkedIn requests, Invariably one of the words they use. You mentioned alignment, but the one that is used often is collaborations. We can collaborate. And what that means in English is I want something from you. And so I think that if I was soliciting somebody on LinkedIn, knowing what I've seen on LinkedIn, the last word I would use as a collaboration, because everybody knows that's not what they're saying.

25:55 They're saying I want something from you. Yeah, it's, it is very common that if I accept an invitation from somebody on the LinkedIn, 5 minutes later I get a message that says will you look at my pitch deck or can I set or can I set up, Can I set up a call with you? And I've learned for me, my primary tool for transformation is my calendar. The calendar is the only documentation that I have where I can go back and say, how did I invest my time this week? Because we can't manage time. We can only manage activities when you think about it.

26:36 Totally. It's so I don't want to lament on this and we'll get off it. But when somebody says to me on LinkedIn, all I need is 15 minute call, I'm going, you just asked for my most valuable asset and you saying all it is is that. And I'm saying, no, no, it's the most valuable thing. Not that my time is more valuable than anybody else's. Everybody's time is limited, right? And so you've just asked me blindly to give up my most valuable asset class for what? Just because you feel like trying to pitch me right? Yes. And this is where, OK, this is where we could turn the conversation of something really life giving. And that is the value of real authentic relationships. So, you know, that's another word that we throw around is authenticity.

27:26 The only way that I can be authentic is if I know myself. If I know myself and I understand that, what do I have to give this? This is somebody that I want to know, what do I have to give this to this person? Can I introduce them to somebody? Is there something that they're working on that I can add value to from my expertise there? There are a number of ways. We do a whole podcast on that. But the point I'm trying to make is that it really boils down to relationships. I've been studying trust, trust and alignment. And you know, when I think about trust, it's it's not only do I trust you, but do I feel safe and trusting you is there.

28:07 And it's the psychological safety, not the coddling type where, you know, kind of place to the lowest level of who I am, but it's more of the the the vibe of psychological safety. The vibe of psychological safety is a very, very powerful vibe. It says it creates a platform where Arthur, you and I can talk about anything and you know, you feel safe and I feel safe. And we know what there's going to be at the end of the conversation. This could be mutual respect. And if there are actions that come out of it, so be it. If there aren't, so be it. But it's a vibe that you send out that says, Hey, I want to have a conversation with you, just to get to know you as a human.

28:50 Do you think that that vibe can be one that a person can learn how to receive and digest properly? In other words, not properly with accuracy? So let me just give an example. I know this is not about me, but I can walk into a room now and I'm not going to go talk to that person. I'm not going to go talk to that person. But I'm going over there and I don't know what it is. It's something magical. And I'm usually right. I'm not right all the time, but I'm usually right, right? Like because I would have engaged with somebody that I felt a good vibe from and then I'd go to the person that I felt the bad vibe from and I was right. Like, this is like, I've got to go take a shower, right? So is that something you can learn? I think you can develop.

29:38 You can absolutely develop that. But what you're talking about is energetic alignment. Do you feel a vibrational frequency? Einstein said. Everything is energy and that's all there is to it. That's right. And so you feel a vibrational frequency from someone when you walk into a room. I get the same sensation. I walk into a room and immediately I'll gravitate to someone. And it could be just something that I feel about that person, like I really want to talk and get to that person. By the same token, there could be someone where I don't even know that person. I'm 25 feet away from that person, but I don't want to get anywhere near that person. And a lot of times what happens in networking events is when somebody goes into a room with get energy, like I'm going to get something from this room instead of who can I meet and how can I serve? You can feel that energy.

30:32 It's a very distinct energy. So I think it's something else that more and more people are understanding what that interchange is like. But you can also feel that over LinkedIn or over any message. You could feel it over e-mail when someone comes with comes at you like in an angry tone, you could feel that. One of those I think that is so dangerous is the, you know, making decisions based on A1 dimensional e-mail or only from maybe messaging. I was thinking, I was thinking, I'm sorry to interrupt, but I was thinking about this the other day just so I happened to pop in my mind for some reason, but there was somebody that wanted to come and stay at my apartment in New York, right?

31:18 Friend of mine, totally casual, nothing, you know, long time relationship. And I in my text I said NP which means no problem to me. He took it as not possible and he got pissed right? So I mean, just got to be careful with tasks, right? Wow, Exactly. It's yeah. I mean, communication happens on so many levels when you talk about spiritual, intellectual and physical. You can communicate with my body language. I can communicate with my words, I can communicate with my energy. I mean, if I'm leaning in and listening and, you know, nodding in a way that's validating and affirming for you, you're going to want to talk to me even more. So that's part of psychological safety as well, is allowing people to be who they are.

32:05 You know, I always say every act is an act of self definition. And if you really think about that, we show up as who we are, who we really are. You know, I read a long time ago How to Win Friends and Influence People, and those lessons framed how I interact with people in large part to this day. And I will admit that a lot of it came naturally to me just because of the environment I grew up in. Like I would like a lot of people. I was running through walls and not paying attention and not being a good listener and just making sure that I could feed my kids, you know, doing what I had to do.

32:46 But the ACT, the position of active listening is a rare talent because most people, I should say that a lot of people are really not listening and they're waiting for you to shut up so they can say the next thing that's on their mind. And how do you deal with somebody like that? Don't attempt to change anybody. Like when I said every act is an act of self definition. I've had people where you know, I've said yes to a 30 minute phone call, a Zoom and they'll get on the call and talk for 29 minutes and it marked the 29 minute mark. Now it's different if I'm engaging them, OK, maybe maybe they're telling me about them themselves or their product. You know, they're, I'm curious, they're I'm asking them questions.

33:33 I'm talking about when I get on a call and the next breath that they take is 29 minutes later it I don't know where to go with that because there's no exchange. There's no, I think conversations that are most productive have a tempo to them that if you're making a statement, then I'm responding to that based from my experience. But my intention is always to add something to the conversation to not to, you know, go into coaching mode. That's not what I'm talking about, but to help them understand that maybe I'm really excited about what they're doing and you know, wow, have you, have you ever thought about this or have you, have you ever thought about that? So that's where you can start stacking really good ideas and stacking momentum on any idea when you collaborate with someone.

34:16 To me, that's true collaboration. Collaboration isn't let me get on the phone with Arthur and try to sell them something, right? That's not that. Like I said, I don't, I don't get my knickers in the twist about it. I just, I'm entertained. It's like, OK, I see what's going on here, right? It's part of, I think it's part of the way that we are in society. Think about how self-centered, how it's easy to be self-centered. So I'm in my world, I'm on my Zoom, I'm on my phone, I'm having my conversations. If I don't get myself off myself, like get myself off my mind and start focusing on something or someone else, it's very easy to stay in that closed environment. So This is why even, you know, when we talk about next Gen. leaders and preparing next Gen.

35:08 leaders to take the reins of maybe a highly successful organization, it's about helping to activate the capacity that's already in them. Not from the standpoint of they're not good enough, but helping them to see that there's so much more, there's so much more opportunity that their voice does matter, that there is a strength within them and helping them to voice what they think and how they feel from a place of empowerment, not from a place of like maybe sitting offside the table. So rising leaders, even senior leaders, you know, a lot of this goes with for senior leaders as well. In the corporate environment right now, there's a lot of fear because if you don't conform, you might be the next one cut. If you don't agree, if you express a contrarian view, there might be consequences.

35:57 There's a lot of unhealthy behavior that's going on in corporations. And I am found in determined to be a solution for teens that are really hurting in terms of feeling safe saying, hey, you know what, Arthur? That's a great idea. But I have something that I think would work even better. You know, would you be open to hearing what I have to say? But people don't feel safe saying that. Or hey, Arthur, I think that's good. But here's a challenge that I think we might have. So it's an anthem to me because of live in a different world, I'm not subject to being fired, right. Do you think that this if you looked at the last 10 years, is that level of fear something that's increased? Let me ask it a different way.

36:40 They are seemingly are companies and I don't know anybody of any consequence at very, very large public companies that are middle market employees. I just don't know that, right? So I don't know how, for example, if you're describing how they feel, I don't know those people, but I know people that are in reasonably big companies that are five years old that are wildly successful, that were founded by younger people. And the culture is. Yeah, that's. Thanks for sharing that idea. Let's dig in and see if it makes sense. So it's the opposite of fear. And do you think that this is pervasive in certain size or is it?

37:24 Yeah, I just don't. I don't see what you see. So I'm just wondering, you know, is everybody running? I mean, naturally people want to manage up so they get promoted, make more money, take care of their families, not get fired, all that kind of stuff, right. So that's just natural, right? But is that still pervasive in big companies where people are worried about getting the axe? If it's a yes or no question I would have. To say yes, just based on my observations. Probably not a yes or no question, but that's OK. What and? This is where we come down to communication and relationships. If I'm able to communicate what I'm thinking in a way that I feel OK, Arthur's going to listen to me.

38:06 Even if he says I'm all washed up, at least I know he's going to listen to my idea. When we when there's a pattern, and this goes back to the the work that I did with Bob Proctor, he called it paradigms. But there is also a corporate paradigm. It's called corporate culture. Yeah. And if there's a culture of retaliation, if there's a culture of fear, the vibrational energy of fear is very, very heavy and it can catch on to people very, very easily. There are psychological studies that say that 80% of our thoughts on a day-to-day basis are negative, and 90% of our thoughts from one day to the next are the same. Yeah, well, I can see how if you're. Always operate.

38:47 If you're spending so much time day in day out working in a corporate environment, you can be totally distracted by your objective. Totally distracted from from your objective because you're consumed by fear, right? You're consumed by fear and this. Is why, like I love to work with senior executive teams and here's why. Because if I can get AC Level Suite to be thinking, acting, and operating in a way that they're creating an open environment for those ideas to rise up. And they're also setting an example of what it means to create alignment with an organization, what it means to create trust, a platform of trust, what it means to grow together as an organization, for true growth to happen. It's not just one person.

39:34 It's not just coming from strategy, is coming from everybody. Everyone along the way has to buy into that strategy and understand that their piece of executing that strategy is vitally important to the overall success of the organization. Well, if I feel separate from either my manager or the manager above me, if I feel separation and distrust, if I have fear of speaking up to say, hey, you know, Arthur, I I made a mistake and I need your help to correct it so it doesn't happen again. If I don't feel safe saying that to me, that's an issue within an organization. Because if I'm running the organization, if it's my company, I want to know. Yeah, totally so.

40:17 Do you find it just seems like a daunting task to me and forgive me for saying that. Like if you've got the founder of the company or the the the hired gun CEO of already a big company and he's just a militant bastard, that's going to trickle down to his reports, right? In that case, is can you unravel that without getting rid of the sentiment from the top in an organization like that? I would. Say that the first, the first person I would work with would be the CEO. That person is probably in a place where he or she has been operating at at that level in execution mode. So they see the vision, they want to execute it. Boom, boom, boom.

41:01 I'm going to tell people what to do, going to get everybody running in the same direction. But what they're lacking is an understanding that people are involved. There's a sensitivity, you know, there's an empathy. Generally people who are, I'll say this for myself, so I'm very, very high. I very high D on the disk. So I am very focused on results and it has been over years that I've worked on myself in terms of understanding that empathy is just as important. Slowing down is just as important. There's a time to execute and there's a time to stay and that's the self-awareness that Bob gave me working with him. He said to me, he said, he said you've got to slow down. He said, what do you mean slow down? I want to hit this target before, you know, targeting and I want to exceed the target.

41:49 I want to exceed the ball. I get it. You know, he would say to me, whoa. Just like, take a beat, take a breath, take time off, he would tell me. Take time off. Because it was a lack of aware. That was a blind spot for me. It was a lack of awareness that I was charging so hard, so fast. Creating results, but at the expense of what? And missing the opportunities to the right and to the left to cultivate these beautiful relationships with these beautiful people. Meanwhile, you had done that. At Fannie Mae. So you just did you fall back into your old habits, you know, Fannie Mae?

42:29 Was like I said, it was a very interesting organization. The teams that I worked with were all individually very experienced professionals. They were all subject matter experts, whether it was credit risk or capital markets servicing, They were all subject matter experts and they're all brilliant people. What I helped them to understand, at least this is what I was told by them after I left, what I helped them to understand was that they were, I was a safe haven for them in an environment where retaliation was very common. Unfortunately. I mean, that was my experience. I won't say that that's how the organization is, but retaliation was common. And that part of it was very, very difficult for me because I always believe in giving people a chance.

43:13 If you're not doing something right and you work for me, it's up to me to have a conversation with you, to say here's what I'm noticing, what's going on. Is there something that I don't know? A lot of times people are going through personal stuff. Yeah. You don't know what's going on behind people's. Doors exactly, so you know. It was it was part of my experience there. I think that's what made it so stressful is that there was, there were lots of expectations. I mean, credit risk. It was at a time when the the industry was consolidating. We were still expected to do certain numbers. Also profitability. It was an organization where you absolutely had to manage up while also taking care of the people. But to me, taking care of the people was a priority because I wanted to help them. I wanted to sew into them so they could get promoted. And these are people with families. So I think at the end of the day, I'm probably not the best fit to go into a role like that because I only because of the way that I think about people.

44:11 I don't know. You produced, you know. 4 to 8, eight to 16 or whatever the number was. Yeah, 4 to 8 to 12. I mean, from that standpoint, yes, I absolutely loved it. Did I get like so jazzed up at those numbers? Absolutely. It was the team, you know, it, it was really them. I mean, we won awards. It was so much fun from that standpoint, it it was really fun. But could I have survive there long term? I don't think I would be healthy if I did. Probably true. So we, we only have a few minutes left and I apologize because I have to run because I could stay another hour easily, maybe 2. So is there something else you'd just like to go on record and share with the group before we exit?

44:58 Because I've I've sorted swirled around the conversation on your hair a little bit, but I appreciate it. Oh yeah, absolutely the one. Thing I would say, Arthur, is don't be afraid to invest in yourself. I mean, if you're really looking to accomplish something more than where you are. I think to me, one of the saddest things is when people settle when they don't go for something bigger or maybe even start their own business when they don't do it because they feel like they can't. You know, I don't have enough time. I don't have enough money, I don't have the right education. It's very easy for us to look at all the things that we don't or we aren't. And what I want people to understand is that power and potential has to be activated.

45:40 It's not something that, I mean, there are some people who are natural born leaders. Yes. When we want to accomplish something more than we've ever done, we have to grow because it's beyond our level of understanding. That's where I think the work of Napoleon Hill and for me, Bob Proctor was pivotal in my life. It was just, yeah, sure seems that way. What? The firm that you mentioned earlier that you're associated with, Spark, was it Spark Brilliance? Yes, Spark. Brilliance.com Jackie Ensinger Jackie is a brilliant, brilliant woman. She was educated at Duke and Harvard in the methodology of positive psychology, and she's created all of the programs that we coach and facilitate.

46:22 She's amazing. I could talk for an hour about Jackie, but she's just beyond her exceptional talent. She's just a really good person. She's a really cheering, loving leader. Yeah, so. Make note of that. Everybody spark. Brilliant. Yeah, Kate, people can get to you on LinkedIn. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes, So Kate Wilks W. ILKES yes, thank you. Kate with AC do you think? We could do this again in like a month or so because there's lots of stuff I'd. Like to talk? About I always enjoy my conversations. With you, it would be an absolute pleasure.

47:04 Thank you. Very kind. Yeah, I really appreciate you. Doing this my my pleasure and honor to have you on the program. Super appreciate it. So happy holidays to you and your. Family, yeah, thank you to you and everybody. Who's listening? Thank you for joining us today and sharing with us the only thing you can't make more of. And that's your time. Thank you. Stick with us for the second.