Unlocking the Secrets of Effective Philanthropy.

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Hello, Welcome everybody to
another episode of Arthur's

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Round Table.
We're super grateful for the

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family office insights community
that's shared this and paid

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attention and and others.
So thank you for doing that.

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We really appreciate it.
We're not exactly high tech over

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here, so we haven't done all the
CEO or LLM type stuff yet, but I

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think we'll get to that.
But so far we've had a lot of

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views and really appreciate it.
Hopefully we'll continue to

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share information with you.
That's family office, family

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office adjacent.
And as I like to say, I just,

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I'm at the crossroads of a lot
of interesting people.

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So we just have others come on
that is have nothing to do with

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family offices.
So it's been a lot of fun.

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So Danielle Patterson was a big
shout out to her.

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She kindly introduced Chris to
us today for this episode.

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And so we really appreciate
that.

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Thanks, Danielle.
So Chris, if you don't mind just

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starting at the beginning and
sharing with the group how

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you'll all this began for you.
Yeah, absolutely.

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Thank you so much, Arthur for
having me on the show.

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And also thank you to Danielle
for introducing us.

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Yeah, my start in philanthropy
really began out of Graduate

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School.
I ended up working at Stanford

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University and I was evaluating
youth and gang violence

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prevention programs throughout
the state of California.

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And this initiative was funded
entirely by 1 Foundation, the

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California Wellness Foundation.
And they created this 10 year

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initiative to try to end youth
violence and really were some of

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the early funders and believers
in shifting the narrative from

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seeing youth violence, violence
as a juvenile justice problem to

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a public health problem.
And it permits something to be

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prevented.
And so it really intrigued me

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about the power of philanthropy
because as any donor, ultra high

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net worth family or foundation
knows, you, you can have a lot

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of money, but that doesn't
necessarily mean you do good

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with it or that you are
effective in how you give your

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money away.
And they approached it with, I

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think in many good ways.
They brought in top talent and

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experts in the field of youth
violence and violence

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prevention.
They funded this.

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They tackled the problem through
a variety of different ways, by

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supporting young people in
communities, in schools, helping

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young people get out of gangs,
for example.

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But they also funded research on
gun violence to increase the

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knowledge and awareness about
the problem.

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They funded policy advocacy and
shifting people's opinions and

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funding leaders and building the
capacity of organizations to

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really tackle these issues.
And they funded it for 10 years,

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which is a long time in
philanthropy to fund anything

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and, you know, focus.
So that was really intriguing.

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And I thought, wow, if you want
to create social change,

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philanthropy might be a good
venue.

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So I decided to go work at the
David and Lucille Packard

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Foundation as my next job, which
of course, as you know is the

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Family Foundation of Dave
Packard of HP, which at the

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time, this is 1999, it was, I
think the largest or one of the

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largest foundations in the
country.

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And I learned there that I, they
really had a strategic approach

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to grant making and
philanthropy.

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And I learned that I liked that.
And I decided I wanted to go out

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on my own as a consultant.
I began getting requests for

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consulting opportunities.
And my first client was Charles

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and Helen Schwab's Family
Foundation.

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So I did a lot of work with them
over the years, and that was the

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middle of the.com boom in
Silicon Valley, in San Francisco

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Bay Area.
So a lot of people were making a

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lot of money and wanting to give
it away.

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So that was the beginning of my
consulting career in

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philanthropy.
What can we just go back to the

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first organization?
It's often interesting.

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Aside from the obvious funding
of Schwab or Packard, we know

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where that money came from.
Was this a public foundation or

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effort and funded by taxes or
where did the money come from?

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Yeah, it's a great question.
It is a what's called a health

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conversion or a health legacy
foundation.

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So it's a a private foundation,
but it was funded through the

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sale of, there's many nonprofit
hospitals, healthcare systems or

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health insurance companies that
sold to for profit buyers and

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shifted from a nonprofit
organization to a for profit

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organization.
And in that sale, they were

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required by law to form a
foundation to essentially give

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back to that community that had
previously been served through

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that nonprofit healthcare system
or health insurance company.

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So there are a lot of health
conversion foundations across

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the country, especially as more
and more nonprofit healthcare

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systems are getting gobbled up
by larger for profit entities.

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Yeah, it was at the time when
you were doing that, that was

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really a lot of the
consolidation was happening.

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In fact, United Healthcare was
because they bought my first

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company that I sold and it was
Franciscan Healthcare system,

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which was a non healthcare
system.

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But it sounds like that
requirement to fund these public

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benefit entities was much like
what the community banks are

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required to do to get back on,
right?

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Yeah, very similar, very
similar.

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And it's important.
I mean, when those organizations

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are formed, it's really
important that they do have the

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community's best interest in
mind and that they, you know,

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are thoughtful and how they
identify what those community

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needs and ensure that local
community voices are involved in

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the planning and implementation
of those foundations.

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Yeah.
And I read a large part of your

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book, and so I have a pretty
good idea of what the essence of

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the book is.
And without revealing it, I'll

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let you tell all the folks what
it is.

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But what I'm curious to know is
when you were involved in that

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first nonprofit, first
Foundation, were you able to

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actually have impact and
demonstrate that you were?

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Because that's often the
problem, right?

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You throw money at a problem,
you don't really track the

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outcomes.
No one's held accountable

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necessarily.
And that's not malicious

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statements.
I'm just there's a trend, right?

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So were you able to demonstrate
the work you were doing had some

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impact?
Well, yeah, because at the time

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I didn't actually work for the
California Wellness Foundation.

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We were funded by them through
the Center for Research and

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Disease Prevention at Stanford
University.

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So we were we were the
evaluators of this initiative.

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So what they did, which I
thought of course was effective,

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is they funded evaluation to to
demonstrate is there and what's

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the impact, is there an impact
and what we're having.

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And absolutely there was a lot
of positive impact and what they

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did.
But that also speaks to a really

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important point, which is, yes,
it is important as a funder, as

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a donor, of course, you want to
know that you're having an

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impact, but how do you know?
And, and are you willing to

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support that nonprofit
organization to evaluate the

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impact of what they're doing?
Because that costs money.

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And a lot of times, you know,
and you know, the title of my

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book is Delusional Altruism.
And I wrote the book because,

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you know, I believe that
everyone's trying to do the

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right thing.
Donors want to make a

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difference.
They want to be altruistic,

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genuinely help others change the
world, but are delusional and

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how the fact that they're
getting in their own way and

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they're preventing themselves
from having the impact that they

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want to have.
And part of that is a scarcity

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mindset.
It's really the first chapter of

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the book and and it's really
part of that scarcity mindset is

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not fully investing in the
nonprofit's you're trying to

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support.
And an example of that is not

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funding them to evaluate their
impact.

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So you want them to demonstrate
to have an impact, but you're

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not willing to give them the
money to help them make the case

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or to learn what's working and
not working so that they can

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improve.
And so that's one of the ways I

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see that donors.
Counterintuitive, right?

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Well, yeah, I'm just.
Going to say what I part of what

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I gathered in reading parts of
your book was that Now wait a

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minute.
If you want to have outcomes

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that you can measure, you have
to run it like a business.

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And so you can't expect to have
good outcomes and measure those

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outcomes unless you have the
people, human resources,

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systems, infrastructure in order
to make that happen like any

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good business does.
Absolutely.

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That's 100% correct.
Because, yeah, especially you

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believe in a 'cause you want to
end homelessness or increase

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access to mental health care,
whatever it might be.

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You have a nonprofit
organization you're supporting

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that's doing a great job.
Well, don't you want them to

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have top talent, the best
financial management systems,

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the ability to fundraise
effectively, a fabulous board of

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directors, a clear strategic
plan that they're implementing,

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all those things?
Well, of course you do.

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All of those things cost money.
And I think a lot of times

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donors and even the
entrepreneurial ones who are so

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smart and how they made their
money, sometimes they're smarts

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like it tossed out the window
when it comes to their

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philanthropy because they forget
the fact that, yeah, businesses

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have to invest in their in their
talent and their retention and

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their upgraded computer and
technology systems, whatever it

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might be.
Well, so does a nonprofit.

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They need to be as a in order to
be effective as donors, you need

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to fund that.
Right.

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Do you think that part of that
mindset, scarcity mindset and

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fear, maybe it's fear, maybe
it's not, is that there's been a

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lot of, I don't know, there was
it, there's a company that rates

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nonprofits on how much they
bring in and how much they

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deploy and it's sort of not very
effective because it doesn't

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tell the whole story, right?
So do you think part of it is

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that the entrepreneur that made
all the money and set up the

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foundation is worried about not
getting rated highly with some

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of these third party like a
rating agency for example?

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Yeah.
And the one you might be

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thinking of is Charity
Navigator.

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That's one which is a great
organization and one worth

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looking at,
charitynavigator.org, which when

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it started, it had kind of that
financial focus of, you know,

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percent of overhead.
If your overhead was too high,

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you were a bad nonprofit, things
like that.

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They've since improved their
ratings system, how they rate.

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But yeah, I don't know that.
I don't know that donors are

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worried about that as much as
they believe that, as much as

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that's been indoctrinated into
our brains, you know, over time.

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I remember back when I was a kid
watching commercials on

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television of, you know, helping
children, organizations globally

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helping children and, you know,
parts of Africa or wherever.

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And the the message was always,
you know, only one cent of your

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dollar donated goes to
administration or overhead and

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$0.99 goes to helping the
people.

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Well, that's a compelling
message, but it isn't actually

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realistic, you know what I mean?
And I don't know.

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How it could be right?
Right.

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Exactly.
Like how could you run a

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business with 1% of your revenue
goes to, you know, pay your

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operations and your employees
and whatnot.

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So I just think that that's like
a misguided belief that

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honestly, it's sort of, it's
part of the water that we drink.

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It's been drilled into our
heads, and we just kind of

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viscerally believe that
nonprofit organizations should

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run on a shoestring.
And really, all that means is

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that you've got really stressed
out, overworked, underpaid

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employee, you know, nonprofit
employees.

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Not proper talent.
I mean, talent costs money,

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right?
Exactly, exactly.

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And you know, a lot of these
organizations, you give a grant

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for one year and then they have
to prove their results and then

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six months later you might get
them another grant.

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Meanwhile, what are they doing
in those six months when they

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don't have the funding or they
don't have the confidence that

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they can hire the top talent
because they can't say with

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confidence we have three years
of funding guaranteed for this

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particular initiative, Yeah.
It's the world's a competitive

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place, right?
So I did note that example in

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your book where not only is it
not long enough to prove out

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your business case.
Let me just talk about it that

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way.
But you're also can't hire

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anybody because they don't know
whether you're going to, you

230
00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,160
know, as a somebody, what is a
career?

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00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,120
They could just go to Google or
Facebook or somewhere and know

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00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,640
that at least there's going to
be longevity in their tenure of

233
00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,480
employment, right?
Much as you altruistically want

234
00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,280
to be involved in a company that
does good for the world, if you

235
00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:17,080
don't know you can feed your
family and you know 13 months,

236
00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,000
what good is it, right?
Exactly, exactly.

237
00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:22,520
And you know, no one's talking
about sending their board of

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00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,200
directors on their board retreat
to The Four Seasons in Maui.

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00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,960
We're just talking about giving
them money to hire a facilitator

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00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,840
to facilitate that retreat so
that people can do their best

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00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,320
thinking and have outcomes that
they can then immediately begin

242
00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,760
to implement.
So since you had your book come

243
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,320
out, which has been what, three
years like that, right?

244
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:44,400
Five years.
Five years.

245
00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,080
Have you been able to convince
people to look at this and

246
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:52,560
change their lens and say, wait
a minute, you probably need to

247
00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:54,480
fix the plumbing a little bit
here?

248
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,960
Yes, yes, absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.

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00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,800
Through, you know, my
consulting, you know, I have a

250
00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,320
lot of consulting engagements,
advising engagements with my

251
00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,520
clients.
One of them actually I can think

252
00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,640
of is a couple in Silicon Valley
who started a Family Foundation

253
00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,400
by asking their advisor, help me
start a Family Foundation.

254
00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,840
The advisors wealth advisor said
sure, set it up and then they

255
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,200
thought, now what do we do with
this foundation?

256
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,000
We actually have no idea just
where I often come into the

257
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,480
equation and you know, we
talked, I always start with

258
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,440
helping my clients think about,
you know, what is it that you

259
00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,640
want to accomplish?
What kind of impact do you want

260
00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:31,640
to have in your community in the
world?

261
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,480
What kind of philanthropic
family do you want to become?

262
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,320
What issues and causes do you
care about and really helping

263
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,080
them kind of unpack that and
identify that.

264
00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,600
And one of the things the wife
said was, well, you know, I

265
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,760
support organizations trying to
help women, you know, kind of

266
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,120
get out of poverty, get out of
homelessness and be successful

267
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,200
and self-sufficient, which is
great.

268
00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:57,880
But she said something like, but
I don't want to support buying

269
00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,200
computers.
I want to support, you know, I

270
00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,440
don't want to support like
fixing the if the roof is caving

271
00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,840
in the organization, I don't
want my money to go to that.

272
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,960
I want it to go to like helping
the women get the training that

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00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,600
they need.
And I had and it really didn't

274
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,960
take very long, but I just had
to help her understand.

275
00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:19,000
Chances are they the woman needs
the computer in the, you know,

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00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,440
the nonprofit that she's going
to, to update her resume.

277
00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,680
She needs to be able to use the
computer to look for jobs or to

278
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,880
get the training that she needs
or the training delivery.

279
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,560
And if the roof is caving in on
the nonprofit, they can't run

280
00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,840
the training program, right?
So it really just was a matter

281
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,600
of helping her see that there
isn't anything wrong with

282
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,680
supporting that nonprofit
organization's capacity,

283
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:45,040
organizational capacity to
deliver the services it's trying

284
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,760
to deliver.
And it really was just a matter

285
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,240
of explaining to it to her.
And she just had an epiphany.

286
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,720
She was like, I get it now.
Of course I understand that she

287
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,000
could.
She could relate it to her

288
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,080
family's business.
She could relate it to

289
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:00,880
remodeling your house, you know
what I mean?

290
00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:02,160
Like it's kind of the same
thing.

291
00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:07,240
So I'm wondering without again
being disparaging, was it the

292
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:11,080
lens that she was looking
through that was given to her as

293
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,280
a result of other people that
had foundations and her view on

294
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,880
money that she didn't want to
spend into those infrastructure

295
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,600
things?
Or was she just being not very

296
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,400
bright about it and I don't mean
to be put you in a position to

297
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,040
call or not right, but what do
you think it was?

298
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,800
No, it's a, the smartest people
have this belief and I think

299
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,480
part of it is a, a fear of
losing control.

300
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,000
I think a lot of times when
donors donate to an

301
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,800
organization, they they want to
track exactly where that money

302
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:43,520
goes.
And it's kind of a fear of like

303
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,760
the money being misspent and
wanting to and, and somehow a

304
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,760
belief that, you know, if you're
like directly helping the

305
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:56,640
person, like giving them shoes
because they have no shoes or

306
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,160
housing because they have no
housing, like that's more

307
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,480
directly benefiting.
And you can visualize that.

308
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,320
You can see it kind of just
taping, taking that step back of

309
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,720
trusting the nonprofit,
delivering the services to say,

310
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,880
hey, actually what we need to do
is shift our model of how we're

311
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,200
approaching this to a one that's
more effective.

312
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,440
And that's going to take some
staff training, that's going to

313
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,600
take some shifting of our
practices and our systems.

314
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,640
We need an investment for that
so we can deliver better

315
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:22,960
services.
It just requires a little bit

316
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,680
more trust, quite frankly, of
that nonprofit, that

317
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,720
organization's executive
director, and there's their team

318
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,120
to trust them that they, they
have the best interest of these

319
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,640
women or whoever it is at heart,
and that they know the best way

320
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,240
to deliver those services and
they know the improvements that

321
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,160
they need to make in their
organization in order to be able

322
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:44,840
to do that.
So I think part of it is just

323
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,560
like a trust issue.
I think it's a fear.

324
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,360
You know, the 2nd chapter in my
book is all about fear.

325
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,080
I think it's a big problem in
philanthropy.

326
00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,680
Fear of losing control of the
nonprofit, fear of losing sight

327
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,920
of who you are and what the
person you thought you were and,

328
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,400
you know, fear of wasting your
money.

329
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,160
But the the reality is I've yet
to meet anyone, any nonprofit

330
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,720
leader that has taken the grant
and run off to the Bahamas with

331
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,880
the money.
Yeah, but there are those,

332
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:16,400
right.
Good for you to not happen to

333
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,599
you.
And it's look, I don't know what

334
00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:22,839
I'm talking about.
So it seems to be that a lot of

335
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:27,520
the nonsense that was going on
in Minnesota and California, and

336
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:32,320
I know you're in California,
with the public stuff that was

337
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:38,920
fraudulent, has caused people to
be really hesitant to deploy

338
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,280
capital because they fear that
it's going to be circled back to

339
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,560
some political campaign.
But that doesn't seem realistic

340
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,880
if it's your foundation, right?
Well, certainly.

341
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,320
So if you it's your money,
whether you're writing money,

342
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:54,800
you know, writing, giving money
away from your checkbook or out

343
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,400
of a foundation or a donor
advised fund or your family

344
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,000
office is supporting this work.
Really, I think it comes down to

345
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,640
building and trusting
relationships with the

346
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,480
nonprofit's that you're trying
to support, making sure you know

347
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,800
who those people are, what
they're doing.

348
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,240
You know it's perfectly fine to
request periodic updates and

349
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,240
progress.
One would too have.

350
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,600
Conversations, you know, I think
especially when you're getting a

351
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,760
large sums of money away, you
know, those nonprofits want to

352
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,800
build a relationship with you,
but it needs to be trusting.

353
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,880
Like, honestly, they need to
know that they can come to you

354
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,960
and say it took us six months
longer than we thought to hire

355
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:34,920
the right person, therefore
we're behind.

356
00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:39,000
Can you give us an extension on
our grant without fear that

357
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,080
you're going to pull the plug
and say, well, never mind, I'm

358
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:42,400
not going to pay you, You know
what I mean?

359
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,200
Like, yeah, they're dealing with
reality just like we're all

360
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,720
dealing with reality and things
are changing and it, you know,

361
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:51,360
and you want to have that
relationship with the grantees

362
00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:53,840
because you want to be able to
be there when when things get

363
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,800
hard and you could say, how can
we help?

364
00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:58,400
You know what else can we do to
support you?

365
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:04,840
So is there anything that you
can share with us if there's

366
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,560
such a thing as a trend in
philanthropy now?

367
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:14,120
Is it don't advise funds?
Is it setting up foundations?

368
00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:20,240
Is it going through Silicon
Valley public foundation?

369
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:25,440
We have to know those people.
Is there anything trending that

370
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,520
you can speak about?
Yeah, I can think of three

371
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,920
things.
One is donor advised funds,

372
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,520
exactly what you said, that is
the fastest growing

373
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,000
philanthropic vehicle.
And for anyone listening that

374
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,120
doesn't know what that is, it's
essentially really kind of an

375
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:42,200
alternative to starting a Family
Foundation or a foundation of

376
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,600
any kind.
It's often referred to as a

377
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:48,280
charitable checking account
where you can open a fund at

378
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,600
your local Community Foundation
at, you know, Fidelity

379
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,440
Charitable or Schwab Charitable
or wherever you have your money

380
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,680
likely.
And essentially that

381
00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,840
organization will handle all the
back office of distributing the

382
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,760
funds to whatever organization
you want to support and kind of

383
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,000
handling all the tax and legal
issues and the reporting so.

384
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,080
You're essentially taking a
charitable deduction, giving the

385
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,360
tax benefits immediately when
you allocate whatever amount of

386
00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:16,160
money.
And you can do it with as little

387
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:21,080
as $5000 or as much as you want.
And then as often as you want,

388
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,240
you can disperse that money.
Just tell the donor, advised

389
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,840
fund sponsor, I want to donate
to whatever organization.

390
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,920
Here's the amount, here's the
information.

391
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,760
And it's very easy.
And there's other benefits.

392
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,400
You don't aren't required to
give away a certain percent of

393
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,240
your assets annually as you are
with a private foundation where

394
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,520
you are required to give 5% of
those foundation assets away.

395
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:47,440
For example, provides for some
more anonymity for the donor in

396
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,960
terms of what you're funding.
And it's easy, it's easier, it's

397
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:51,840
less expensive.
I'm not saying it's better or

398
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,320
worse than a private foundation.
It's just a, it's a great

399
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,200
vehicle and it's really growing
in scale.

400
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,160
Also, it's helpful when you
know, let's say you have a

401
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,280
liquidity event and it's coming
up on the end of the year and

402
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,800
you want to make a charitable
donation, but you don't quite

403
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:06,200
yet know what you want to
support.

404
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,120
You can put it in a donor
advised fund and give yourself a

405
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:12,280
little breathing room to figure
out what causes or issues you

406
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:17,120
actually care about.
And get the tax right right

407
00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:19,080
away.
Yes, and you get the tax benefit

408
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,600
right away.
So that's one trend for sure.

409
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,520
I would say another trend, and
this is what I'm seeing a lot in

410
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,440
my work is succession planning
in family philanthropy.

411
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,360
And as we have, you know, as you
know, a massive

412
00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:34,760
intergenerational transfer of
wealth underway right now.

413
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:39,040
A lot of the donors are aging
out and thinking about how do I

414
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,000
transfer my wealth not only to
my children and grandchildren

415
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:46,440
and heirs, but how do I ensure
that our our philanthropy

416
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,880
continues on.
If that's a Family Foundation or

417
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,200
donor advised funds or whatever
it might be and really thinking

418
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:56,040
about, you know, questions like
how do I, I was just talking to

419
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,200
a gentleman today about this
actually, you know, how he wants

420
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,360
to continue his Family
Foundation in perpetuity long

421
00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:07,880
after he's gone and he's in his
80s and you know, he wants to

422
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,960
have, but he doesn't want to
lose control.

423
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,600
He doesn't want the board 40
years from now to be kind of

424
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,120
funding Willy nilly all kinds of
strange things that he didn't

425
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:20,600
care about.
So how do you balance getting

426
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:25,320
clarity about what your values
are, your priorities, the issues

427
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:30,120
that are important to you as the
donor and ensure that that kind

428
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:35,000
of legacy is built into the
foundation so that the board,

429
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:39,840
you know, 40 years from now or
50, who is maybe, you know, has

430
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:41,840
they're five years old today,
right?

431
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,240
There's nowhere, no one knows
them.

432
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,960
How do they have the information
that they need to ensure that

433
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,080
they're making the best
decisions that align with the

434
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,400
donor intent without that donor,
like dictating from the grave,

435
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,920
right?
And without being handcuffed by

436
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,120
so much restriction that they
can't adapt to changing

437
00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:02,040
situations and changing
environments.

438
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,120
Because of course, the world's
going to be a different place in

439
00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:06,920
40 years.
And, you know, one of the things

440
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,040
he cares about in particular is
a, is a certain kind of cancer.

441
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,880
Well, and that's what he's been
funding the research around.

442
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,080
Well, that's great.
But in 40 years, that cancer

443
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,120
might no longer exist.
There could be a cure.

444
00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:23,720
So how do you have enough
openness in that kind of legacy

445
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,840
and those expectations while
allowing that board to kind of

446
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,480
stick with the goals and the
original intent of the donor?

447
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,280
One would think that that would
be a natural sort of first

448
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,960
principles thing to do in
setting up the foundation,

449
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:45,680
assuming that you wanted to last
beyond your longevity it and it

450
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,240
it is not the case.
No, no.

451
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,440
And you're right, it should be.
But you know, look, people have

452
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,320
just like people have, you know,
delay creating a will or an

453
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,360
estate plan.
People don't want to think about

454
00:23:57,360 --> 00:23:59,240
their demise, right?
They don't want to think about

455
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:04,040
not being around and they fear
losing control and in their life

456
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:05,880
and they think they're going to
live forever like we all do,

457
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,640
right?
So you often put off those

458
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,480
decisions until you're no longer
physically capable or

459
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,800
emotionally, mentally fully
capable of making those

460
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,120
decisions or God forbid
something happens unexpectedly

461
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,760
and you can't.
And you know, a lot of it, as

462
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,680
you know, in family philanthropy
and family wealth has to do with

463
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,840
ensuring kind of clarity of
mission of the family,

464
00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:31,360
communication among the family.
So everyone understands kind of

465
00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:34,520
what's happening.
And and a lot of people are

466
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,720
hesitant to do that with their
adult children and

467
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,160
grandchildren.
And so, you know, oftentimes

468
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,120
people feel like philanthropy is
going to be the glue that brings

469
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:43,960
the family together.
But if you don't have those

470
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:48,200
underlying principles in place
of communication and engagement

471
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,280
and education, then family, it's
the same, right?

472
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,360
The family has the same quirks
and, and issues that every

473
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:57,320
family has.
And tossing a bunch of

474
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,680
philanthropic dollars on top of
it isn't necessarily going to

475
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,440
bring people together.
So it just requires some

476
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,440
thoughtful planning and it
requires letting go and

477
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,400
sometimes painful conversations.
But so much easier to do that

478
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,520
well.
Everyone's healthy and you know.

479
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:17,640
So that is a trend that you're
seeing people finally adopting.

480
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:20,040
Increasingly, yeah.
And you know a lot of it's out

481
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,880
of necessity because we have a
non aging population.

482
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,080
A lot of these original donors
are in now and their 80s and 90s

483
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,880
and recognizing that we need to
do this, but it can be hard.

484
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,680
I mean, I have another client
right now that is a large multi

485
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,760
generational Family Foundation
where their first generation is

486
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:41,000
passed on, but the second, third
and 4th generations are all very

487
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,400
much involved and on the board.
It's a very large board, all

488
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,400
family members.
And they're trying to grapple

489
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,560
with how do we, they've been
around for 50 years.

490
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,280
How do we set ourselves up now
so that we can be around 50

491
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,800
years from now and not just
around, but thriving when the

492
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:02,400
family has, you know, grown 10
times, you know, tenfold.

493
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,160
And our assets might have grown,
but we can't control what that

494
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,760
is going to be like.
And how do we, how do we think

495
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:14,000
now about succession, next
generation engagement and senior

496
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,120
members of the board allowing
the next generation to step in

497
00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:22,680
and them to step off without
fearing that, well, they don't

498
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,400
know what dad thought, right?
Or they don't know what Graham

499
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,600
Granddad thought.
I know or I've been around for

500
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,240
on this foundation for 30 years.
You know, you can't.

501
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,760
It's fear of like losing that
institutional memory and that

502
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,360
family connection.
So how do you build that in

503
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,880
among the generations that never
met the donors and don't have

504
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,160
that personal connection to what
they wanted to do?

505
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:48,960
It just requires a bit of
effort.

506
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:55,920
Do you think that the when
introducing this governance is a

507
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,000
surprise to people?
Well, sometimes, I mean,

508
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:05,480
sometimes the board is comprised
of family or sort of entitlement

509
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,080
entitled family people who feel
that they deserve to be on the

510
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:09,680
board just because they're
family members.

511
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,240
And you know, that's fine at the
beginning, I think.

512
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,360
But then I think what's most
more important is you bring on

513
00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:18,040
people that have expertise,
knowledge, time to be committed

514
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,680
to the organization so you
really have the best board

515
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:25,920
possible, not just who's around.
I think oftentimes when these

516
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,000
foundations start, there's no
term limits.

517
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,520
You know, you're on lifetime
appointments.

518
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,240
Well, guess what?
People don't want to let go of

519
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,160
those because you know, they,
they care, they want to give

520
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,840
back, They feel connected.
There's also a prestige of being

521
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,840
on a for a foundation board.
Sometimes you have money

522
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:50,560
yourself to give away as a
result and it's hard to pull

523
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,960
that back if you don't set up
term limits at the beginning.

524
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,760
So I really encourage term
limits so you can have bring in

525
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,560
new ideas, new perspectives on
an ongoing basis.

526
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,880
And then, you know, I think
governance has to evolve over

527
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,000
time in any organization in a
business and price regular fat

528
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,880
non Family Foundation.
So I think it's important to

529
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,560
just put in regular practices
like board self evaluations

530
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,480
every year, a couple of years,
maybe every 10 years, you know,

531
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,920
do a review of what is the
governance structure we have in

532
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,920
place?
Is this really what's working

533
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:22,280
well, what's not working so
well?

534
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,840
What changes can we make to
improve how we work and you

535
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,040
know, kind of creating that
culture of agility and

536
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,160
effectiveness?
I'm kind of going back to where

537
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,160
we started the conversation
around evaluation.

538
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,600
You know, you want to evaluate
yourself as a foundation, as a

539
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,160
philanthropic family, evaluate
your governance, your staff,

540
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,160
your systems and processes on a
regular basis.

541
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,600
Just to not to be overly complex
about it, but just to understand

542
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,440
what is working well, what isn't
working so well, what

543
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,280
improvements could we make today
that would really pay off and

544
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,360
you know, a lot in the future?
You know, there it's struck me

545
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,400
that I don't know a lot of I
traffic and family offices, OK,

546
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:08,960
let's just call it that, right?
And I don't ever take a role

547
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,840
like you are taking a role with
them, which is not something I

548
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,560
have an expertise or interest
in.

549
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,200
But it doesn't, it struck me
that there's not a lot of people

550
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,720
like you who can help families
do this sort of thing.

551
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:29,160
However, there are a lot of
people who are at money center

552
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:34,600
banks and the big places that
want to help you set up the

553
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,560
foundation so they can manage
the money.

554
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,760
And some would say that's a
conflict.

555
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,720
I'm not sure there is.
But my, my question is going to

556
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,960
be, are the people embedded in
those places that can

557
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,640
effectively do your role?
Maybe sometimes you know, what's

558
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,080
is that?
Are those people, Are there

559
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:54,960
people there that can help like
you do?

560
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,640
Yeah, it's a great question.
At some of the large largest

561
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:03,000
firms like Bank of America, JP
Morgan, yes, they have whole

562
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,440
philanthropic divisions of
people that can provide that

563
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,720
kind of support.
However, that does require

564
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,760
usually they're what person's
actual wealth advisor that

565
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,600
they're working with reaching
out to their colleagues to get

566
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,200
the support, which doesn't
always happen.

567
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,120
Sometimes they're just simply
not aware of it.

568
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,760
I'm not speaking specifically
about Bank of America or JP

569
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,200
Morgan, but others that I've
I've talked to.

570
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,560
So a, the wealth advisor has to
avail themselves of the

571
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,320
resources that they actually
have in house.

572
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,560
And if they do, that's great.
And there's a lot of support

573
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,720
that those organizations can
provide.

574
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,560
But in my experience, there is
some limit to what they're able

575
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,320
to do, right.
So chances are that the like

576
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,720
those staff, they might help,
you know, meet with the family,

577
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,720
help facilitate a family
meeting, a family conversation

578
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,280
about their giving, but aren't
likely to conduct strategic

579
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,120
planning for the Family
Foundation, aren't likely to do

580
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:58,600
a full succession plan for that
family because they just have

581
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,200
limited capacity and bandwidth
of what they're able to provide

582
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,520
and not able to provide.
And there's some regulatory

583
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,480
issues too, right?
Sure, absolutely.

584
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,040
Yeah.
And oftentimes they're not

585
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,960
necessarily equipped to, you
know, have the have those deeper

586
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,360
conversations or deeper
discussions or, you know, I

587
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,200
think one thing that holds a lot
of wealth advisory firms and

588
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,120
family offices back is fear of
losing the client.

589
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,120
So if you like, I have no
problem like kind of pushing

590
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,840
back on my clients and saying
why, like, why do you want to do

591
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:35,840
that?
Are you sure that's really a

592
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,720
good idea?
I think you're making a mistake

593
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,600
or.
Yeah, you're not risking AUM

594
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,240
going out the door, right?
Exactly, exactly.

595
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,880
And there's a lot of value to I
don't, I'm not trying to be

596
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,440
obnoxious, I'm just trying to
help them make the best decision

597
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,280
and make sure that they really
thought through what what

598
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,320
they're doing.
And exactly, I'm not worried

599
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:53,720
about the AUM walking out the
door.

600
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,600
Yeah, like I said, I don't think
it's a doesn't have to be a

601
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:03,440
conflict because if you're going
to provide even to the extent

602
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,080
that we've just discussed at
those firms, the benefit of

603
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,440
those other resources that the
wealth advisor may have that

604
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,760
costs money, nothing's free.
So you have to pay for it

605
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,160
somehow, right?
It's a pay for through the

606
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,400
aggregate of a web.
Or are you going to pay for it

607
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,400
and somebody like you that does
it separately still has to pay

608
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,760
for it, right?
Exactly, Exactly.

609
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,520
One thing that I think is
problematic, I've seen a lot of

610
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:35,200
firms offer free services to
their clients in order to move

611
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,160
their assets.
Like if you move your assets

612
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,320
over to us, we'll provide free
succession planning for your

613
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,040
foundation, will provide free
strategic planning for your

614
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:45,320
foundation, whatever it might
be.

615
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,760
I have concerns about that
because I just think of it as a,

616
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,840
you know, you're trying to reel
them in and your, your goal is

617
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,800
really assets under management.
And then you're not going to

618
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,560
want to deploy those assets for
philanthropic purposes.

619
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,920
And you're not going to push
back on the donor saying, you

620
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,360
know, you're being obnoxious
with your kid, like give them a

621
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,040
break.
But I I will do that.

622
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,600
Right, of course.
Yeah.

623
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:11,240
It's it's easier to be direct
and authentic and say what's

624
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,960
really on your mind if you're if
you're a, you know, And again, I

625
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,040
think there's real value in all
those places.

626
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:19,520
I know a lot of those people and
I think.

627
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:24,360
Yeah, absolutely.
If I'm a your colleague and I'm

628
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,680
giving advice to your client
about philanthropy, and I

629
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,800
suggest they give away a lot of
money and it's going to take it

630
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,800
off your balance sheet, you
might be, you know, taken in the

631
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,960
back alley and beat up a little
bit, right?

632
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,480
I think it's short sighted and I
think it's actually an example

633
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,680
of that scarcity mindset I
talked about because, you know,

634
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:44,280
you really have to think big
picture.

635
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:46,720
So yeah, maybe you're giving
some of that assets under

636
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,960
management away and it's
decreasing, but you are

637
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,280
providing a lot of value for
that client, so.

638
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,360
There's and the little trust.
You're building trust and if

639
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,680
you're if you're doing it well
and engaging the next

640
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,600
generations along the way and
building your relationship with

641
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,480
their kids or grandkids, then
you're not likely to lose those

642
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,480
clients when the original client
is no longer and involved in the

643
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,440
picture has passed away, which
is a huge risk and a huge

644
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,080
problem, as you know, for a lot
of wealth advisors and you know,

645
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,040
multi family offices for sure.
So I think it's also thinking

646
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,360
long term.
And then, you know, honestly,

647
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,560
there are a donor advised fund
sponsoring organizations that

648
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,280
allow the Families Wealth
Advisor to continue managing

649
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,560
those assets.
Totally, totally.

650
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,159
There's a lot of creative
options.

651
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,360
We, we have friends that
actually came from Danielle, a

652
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:42,199
company called DAF Share that
has basically a fintech that has

653
00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:48,360
made it so it's easy to put your
DAF in there without disrupting

654
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,199
anybody who's managing the money
without any of that, and just

655
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,320
make it easy for you to find
places to deploy some of your

656
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,800
DAF money.
And at the sign of the times,

657
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,880
yeah, you know, technology steps
in and makes the process a

658
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,920
little easier.
Yeah.

659
00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:07,240
And behind the scenes and it can
be a white glove offering that

660
00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:09,560
you can provide your clients.
Totally, Yeah.

661
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,640
So aside from what I highly
recommend that people who are

662
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:19,520
interested in the topic, Chris
kindly sent me a copy and I was

663
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:21,320
enjoyed it.
Thank you.

664
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:23,960
Read the book.
But is there other things like

665
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,320
do you have a program where
people can come onto the

666
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,320
website, for example, or be in
touch with you and start the

667
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,840
process of realistically putting
a plan in place?

668
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,440
Yeah, thank you.
Yes, I think one of the biggest

669
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,680
challenges for families is they
don't have a strategic family

670
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,360
giving plan.
They are giving reactively as

671
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,120
one of my clients described it,
giving in onesies, twosies, you

672
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:49,760
know, just sort of giving here,
giving there.

673
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,800
Somebody asks you feel guilty,
you make a grant or you're at

674
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,920
the end of the year, the year
you're scrambling, wishing you

675
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,320
had thought more, been more
thoughtful about the

676
00:35:58,320 --> 00:35:59,720
organization's you want to
support.

677
00:35:59,720 --> 00:36:02,280
But you're trying to get money
out the door for tax purposes.

678
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,880
And it's just too easy to give
reactively and give out of guilt

679
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:08,800
and kind of be overwhelmed by
the process.

680
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,720
So I am a big believer in
creating family giving plans and

681
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:15,680
I have a free master class.
It's an on demand master class

682
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,920
that your listeners, I'd love
for you to check out.

683
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,320
It's called 3 simple steps to
creating a high impact family

684
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,160
giving plan.
It's an hour long and it

685
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,520
provides I'm just real insights,
the mistakes to avoid and three

686
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,720
steps you can take to create
that family giving plan.

687
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:35,760
So you can find it at
familyphilanthropysimplified.com

688
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,440
back slash free training.
So that's family

689
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,680
philanthropysimplified.com back
slash free training and it's a

690
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:47,040
great resource because I think,
you know, if you don't know

691
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:48,520
where you're going, you're never
going to get there.

692
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,360
And it doesn't have to be that
complicated just to have clarity

693
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,720
on what it is you want to
accomplish with your

694
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:57,440
philanthropy, how you want to
accomplish it.

695
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,240
Do you want to involve your
family or not in the process?

696
00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:03,960
And what is that kind of 12
month road map that's going to

697
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,320
help you get from where where
you are today to where you want

698
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,040
to be and a game plan to be able
to implement that?

699
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,480
Is there?
Thanks for doing that.

700
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:12,920
Thanks for sharing that with
everybody.

701
00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:15,680
Is there back to trends for a
minute?

702
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:21,080
Is there any data or at least
anecdotally you've seen there's

703
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:26,440
people that are making a lots of
money exiting companies, being

704
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,680
part of a startup that got
exited and all of a sudden

705
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,360
they're, you know, worth, you
know, 100 million bucks and may

706
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,280
not even considered what to do
with it besides, you know,

707
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,160
buying a new Lamborghini or
something.

708
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:44,120
What is the is there people
continue to give to set up

709
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:48,040
foundations, continue to give
the charity in its various

710
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,160
forms?
Is there anything, any metrics

711
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,600
that you've seen or experienced?
Yeah.

712
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,680
I haven't seen metrics on that,
but I'd say a couple things.

713
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:01,040
One is, you know, oftentimes we
think about giving once we've

714
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,440
made all the money, right, once
we have all that money to give

715
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:04,840
away.
But I think it's actually more

716
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,400
effective to be giving during in
your lifetime in your 20s and

717
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,160
30s and 40s when you are making
the money and not necessarily

718
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,680
having it all or having all the
time, but kind of building that

719
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,520
philanthropic muscle, that
giving muscle, whether it's

720
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,880
donating to your local Community
Foundation or any organization

721
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:22,640
or be serving on a board of
directors.

722
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,560
But because you learn so much as
a donor by giving, there's a

723
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,120
phrase I use which is like
learning by grant making, like

724
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,480
giving the money away is a great
way to learn about how to give

725
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,200
money away, right?
What are the mistakes you made?

726
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:36,640
Were the things you wish you did
differently?

727
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,880
What are the blind spots?
But also what excites you?

728
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,520
Like what?
What was so fun and gave you joy

729
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,960
about doing that?
How do you want to replicate

730
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,240
that in your in your work so
that by the time you do exit or

731
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:51,800
have some other liquidity event
or inherit money, you're not

732
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,320
then deer, oops, not then deer
in the headlights.

733
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,360
You have built that muscle and
you have that much more

734
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,680
knowledge and know how
experienced you have a sense of

735
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,160
what issues you care about.
Don't care about as much the

736
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,120
ways you want to have an impact.
Do you want to be really

737
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,280
involved and hands on?
Do you want to be behind the

738
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:10,960
scenes?
Do you want to be anonymous?

739
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,200
You know, all those kinds of
things you will have learned

740
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,480
through the process.
And so I really encourage people

741
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,200
you know it doesn't.
It doesn't have to be a lot of

742
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,920
money, it doesn't have to be
time consuming, but to begin to

743
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,520
give in your lifetime so that
you, when you have money to be

744
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,120
much more strategic, thoughtful
and impactful, it comes a lot

745
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,800
easier to you.
Yeah, totally makes sense.

746
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:39,800
I think we've had a lot of
people who are second generation

747
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,760
that were brought up in an
environment or part of their

748
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:50,120
training from their parents was,
OK, we're rich, so let's deal

749
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:51,600
with that.
So you know how to deal with

750
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,920
that second, here's what it
might be a good idea to build a

751
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,720
muscle.
You're going to make some money.

752
00:39:57,720 --> 00:39:59,480
You're going to take so much to
save it for yourself.

753
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,280
You're going to take so much and
you're going to do good to the

754
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:06,240
extent that you can or want to.
And that muscle is built by an

755
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:09,720
early age of you've seen people
putting programs in place to

756
00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:13,560
help the kids and the grandkids.
Consider building that muscle

757
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:15,360
even early on if it's just
pennies.

758
00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:18,960
Yeah, I think you know, the
classic sort of three jars

759
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,840
strategy, you know when you get
as a kid you get your allowance

760
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,760
or you get birthday money or
whatever it is, 1/3 of it for

761
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,480
savings, 1/3 of it for spending
and 1/3 of it for charity.

762
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,960
And thinking about what are
those issues?

763
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,320
What are the, if it's give to
the animals, great, let's donate

764
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,200
to the local animal shelter,
whatever it might be.

765
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,880
But building in that awareness
and that ownership of that

766
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,760
process as well, even quite
frankly, for little kids like

767
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:47,240
just building in and a culture
of sharing a culture of looking

768
00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:51,120
out for other people that might
be disadvantaged or the new kid

769
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,560
at school that doesn't know
anyone, like befriending them.

770
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,600
You know, just thinking about
helping others and being kind to

771
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:03,320
others and looking out, paying
attention to who might not be

772
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:07,000
having as good of an experience
as you are or is left out of the

773
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,040
group.
So I think and that too is a way

774
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,960
that you can engage 3 year olds,
you know, in kind of a culture

775
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,680
and and family culture of, of
giving and generosity.

776
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,360
Have you, have you gotten any
rumblings from your community

777
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:27,120
and the people you talk to that
all the stuff, the pullback for

778
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:33,600
USAID has had an impact in any
of the people that you are in a

779
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,880
position to give away more money
to fill those gaps?

780
00:41:37,240 --> 00:41:40,240
And just for the record, I don't
mind putting it on the record

781
00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:43,000
that it was.
I believe there's tons and tons

782
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,640
and tons of fraud in that.
And so it's probably a good

783
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:46,960
idea.
A lot of it shut down.

784
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,480
But that's just my opinion.
But it's also had impact to

785
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,400
those charities that are doing
good.

786
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,960
Well, a couple thoughts.
One is, you know, the government

787
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,040
is giving away or, you know,
funding way more than

788
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,440
philanthropy ever could.
So philanthropy could never fill

789
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,680
the void of what the just in the
US, the US government does in

790
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:09,760
terms of education funding,
Human Services, USAID.

791
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,080
Even if all of them, you know,
every billionaire gave all of

792
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,760
their money away, I think it
still wouldn't, you know, amount

793
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,480
to as much as the government is
able to do.

794
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,240
So that's just a perspective I
think to have.

795
00:42:19,240 --> 00:42:22,000
Like philanthropy is not going
to solve the problem, but

796
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,680
philanthropy can be really
helpful is taking risks, you

797
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,120
know, being that kind of risk
taking funder to try new ideas

798
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,360
and not worry that it's going to
flop because, you know, OK,

799
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,200
well, we learned something.
Now we can try something

800
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,480
different or, you know, testing
the model and then the model

801
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,720
proves successful and then you
can scale the model and then the

802
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,320
government or the government
could scale the model right at

803
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,560
even a greater scale.
So I think there's a lot of

804
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,480
value in philanthropy and in
working in partnership with

805
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,080
government, be it federal,
state, local, there's a lot of

806
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,040
value there.
I also think yes.

807
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,400
And to answer your original
question, I absolutely have a

808
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,920
lot of clients and know of a lot
of nonprofits that were

809
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,960
dramatically hurt through the
completely unexpected

810
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:07,240
elimination of USAID dollars to
their organizations, to the

811
00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:08,840
organizations they were
partnering with.

812
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,320
It caused a lot of damage to
the, you know, the great work

813
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,520
that was being done.
As I understand it, I haven't

814
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,040
seen the data, but I've heard
this.

815
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,040
And I wouldn't just, I think
it's worth reviewing that a lot

816
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,080
of people have died because they
didn't have access to the

817
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,720
resources, medications, services
that were being provided by

818
00:43:25,720 --> 00:43:30,320
organizations around the world.
And so, you know, I think in

819
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:34,680
philanthropy, phrase that is
often used is first, do no harm.

820
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,440
And it means, you know, just
because you have money and

821
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,320
you're giving it away doesn't
mean you can't actually harm

822
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,280
people in the process of doing
that because you do it

823
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:45,640
ineffectively or without thought
or because you pull the plug

824
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:49,280
organizations one day, which is
essentially what the federal

825
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,720
government did.
And so that is not an effective

826
00:43:51,720 --> 00:43:59,040
way to identify problems or fix
them or be thoughtful stewards

827
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:04,200
of public or private dollars.
Yeah, yeah, there's it was

828
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:10,520
massive, whatever the outcome
was there, no matter what you do

829
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:14,840
and that big of a scale, it's
going to hurt people, maybe

830
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:19,520
unintentionally, but maybe not.
Yeah, yeah, I appreciate your

831
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:23,240
perspective on that as well.
So I would encourage everybody

832
00:44:23,240 --> 00:44:26,800
to grab the book.
You can get it anywhere, right?

833
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,280
Yeah, Amazon, I'll just pull up
delusional altruism.

834
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,760
Of course it's backwards, but
delusional altruism, it's

835
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,600
available.
Amazon, barnesandnoble.com, I

836
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,680
think booksamillion.com,
probably.

837
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,400
Other places, absolutely.
Yeah.

838
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:47,480
And no, go ahead.
I'll just also say, you know, I

839
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:53,000
think one of the, I think one of
the misguided beliefs that a lot

840
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,520
of donors have is that, you
know, giving away money is easy.

841
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:01,760
And I'm not saying it's rocket
science, but I am, I am

842
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,480
suggesting that it's harder than
you think and requires

843
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,240
investment in yourself.
And so just if it's buying a

844
00:45:07,240 --> 00:45:10,040
book and reading a book, if it's
retaining an advisor, if it's

845
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:14,920
watching my free master class,
if it's listening to a webinar,

846
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,760
watching a webinar or a podcast,
it really is important to invest

847
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,600
in yourself, invest in your own
learning.

848
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,960
If you need to bring on support,
just like you might bring on a

849
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,880
family office or you might
retain a state planning

850
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,600
attorney.
And it's important to invest in

851
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,560
the success of your philanthropy
so that you can have the

852
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,840
greatest impact on whatever
issue or 'cause you want to

853
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:38,360
support.
Yeah, right.

854
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,400
Like a business.
I love your suggestion though,

855
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,720
even before you have the big
exit to start building the

856
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:47,120
muscle and learn.
It's kind of like the same thing

857
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:50,440
you learn by doing, right?
Right, like investing, right?

858
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,520
You, you start small with what
you have, right?

859
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,880
So that when the stakes are big,
you're much more savvy in how

860
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,600
you're investing.
Chris, thanks for doing this,

861
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,120
really appreciate it.
Thanks again to Danielle.

862
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,520
Big shout out for putting us
together.

863
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,560
Maybe in a in a few months, if
it's OK with you, we can do this

864
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:13,120
again and sort of catch up on
trends and talk more about

865
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:14,640
what's going on.
That would be great.

866
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:15,680
I'd love it.
Yeah.

867
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:17,160
Thanks, Chris.
Yeah, absolutely.

868
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,280
Thank you, Arthur.
Thank you everybody for joining

869
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:20,400
in.
Bye bye.